ADS-B Mandate Discussion Paper Released
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From: Australia
ADS-B Mandate Discussion Paper Released
The Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications, Sport and the Arts has released a discussion paper to consider whether or not to further mandate ADS-B for aircraft. The end outcome after 2033 is to have ADS-B Out in all VFR and ADS-B Out/In in all IFR aircraft.
Unfortunately, I cannot post links yet, but if you search for "ADS-B Mandate", it should come up.
Unfortunately, I cannot post links yet, but if you search for "ADS-B Mandate", it should come up.
Joined: Jan 2020
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From: Melbourne
Here is the link
https://tinyurl.com/2wjcn9ye
https://tinyurl.com/2wjcn9ye
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From: Melbourne
Pre-landing checks:
- Radio use - monitor only, eyes outside for traffic that might be doing the same thing
- Transponder / ADSB off
- iPad with EFB set to flight mode
Back just like it was in the old days! Yes this is tongue in cheek, but it's reflective of what is actually going on at some airports.
Joined: Aug 2022
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From: Melbourne, Victoria
The Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development, Communications, Sport and the Arts has released a discussion paper to consider whether or not to further mandate ADS-B for aircraft. The end outcome after 2033 is to have ADS-B Out in all VFR and ADS-B Out/In in all IFR aircraft.
This is just another case of Big Brother trying to tell everyone what to do.
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: Cab of a Freight Train
ADS-B transponders aren't cheap! Unless they're free installed (with all units paid for by Joe Taxpayer) or specifically required for access to some level of airspace (like IFR now), it simply isn't going to work - if necessary it will just push more folks sideways into RAAus, Class G and out the door.
Imagine the outcry if they tried this on motorists? All in the name of "safety", of course....
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From: USA
That seems complicated for thieves. Why not just look for the driveway to be empty? Vastly increases the options for burglars.
Would there be a gang that would spread out over the countryside to the far flung locations of airplane owners on the off chance they were also the pilots of the same aircraft?
The big question is, why is the owner address an open record? I think that might be the problem, not ADS-B.
For me the problem is that ADS-B is far behind the times. It should be able to be used to identify every aircraft and unusual obstacle that might be encountered and used as a means for autonomous systems to avoid manned systems. However the bandwidth for it is too small to manage the expected demand. On top of that there are concerns that it can be spoofed pretty easily. Concerns about cost are really concerns about the number of users. A new system that would be required for drones IN and OUT, would add tens of millions of users, leading to a significant drop in price as the development and certification costs are diluted. The tech in a hobby drone is more sophisticated than an ADS-B system yet costs far less due to those huge numbers. Every aircraft, hang glider, hot air balloon, Piper Cub or other aircraft with no native electrical system would be included. Permanent obstructions such as radio and tv towers, unusual ridges or outcroppings, power lines could be included - noting that an ADS-B transmitter currently does not have to be co-located with the item it describes.
The present incarnation of ADS-B is too expensive and too limited to provide the functions required of an increasingly dense environment. Tying it to personal information seems off-putting and not necessary.
Would there be a gang that would spread out over the countryside to the far flung locations of airplane owners on the off chance they were also the pilots of the same aircraft?
The big question is, why is the owner address an open record? I think that might be the problem, not ADS-B.
For me the problem is that ADS-B is far behind the times. It should be able to be used to identify every aircraft and unusual obstacle that might be encountered and used as a means for autonomous systems to avoid manned systems. However the bandwidth for it is too small to manage the expected demand. On top of that there are concerns that it can be spoofed pretty easily. Concerns about cost are really concerns about the number of users. A new system that would be required for drones IN and OUT, would add tens of millions of users, leading to a significant drop in price as the development and certification costs are diluted. The tech in a hobby drone is more sophisticated than an ADS-B system yet costs far less due to those huge numbers. Every aircraft, hang glider, hot air balloon, Piper Cub or other aircraft with no native electrical system would be included. Permanent obstructions such as radio and tv towers, unusual ridges or outcroppings, power lines could be included - noting that an ADS-B transmitter currently does not have to be co-located with the item it describes.
The present incarnation of ADS-B is too expensive and too limited to provide the functions required of an increasingly dense environment. Tying it to personal information seems off-putting and not necessary.
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From: Melbourne
It would be nice if you could opt out of being displayed in Flight Radar 24 or similar. Even the police appear in there, albeit with their aircraft type showing and not their rego in some cases. AvTraffic has no controls, all of the police aircraft show up in there and I've literally seen a bunch of Eshays at an Oakleigh restaurant showing each other how to see where the police helicopter is by using AvTraffic. If the gangs out stealing cars know where the air wing are, they cease and desist as they know they will be busted very quickly otherwise. The AFP Survey 400 a C208 flies without showing up, but that's because they turn off their transponder and they are tracked as a primary paint by Mel Centre in a block altitude not below 8,000ft or thereabouts.
Not really. If you watched aircraft taking off out of Moorabbin registered to a private owner, you can drive on over and if there's nobody home, there's a high probability you know exactly where the home owner is.
That seems complicated for thieves. Why not just look for the driveway to be empty? Vastly increases the options for burglars.
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From: Geostationary Orbit
I see ADS-B in USA was implemented for one purpose, and one only - enhancing air safety.
Then along comes a company that sends out landing charges bills on behalf of airports.
And - as far as I read - admits using the free to air ADS-B data for their billing purposes.
Many have complained to FAA about the misuse of the ADS-B signals for non air safety commercial gain.
Then we go to fitment to "all" VFR aircraft.
In my small single seat aircraft - it physically has nowhere to instal a transponder/ADS-B/GPS. I don't really know how big all that stuff is (is it one thing or three?) but I do know, I don't physically have a place for any of it.
And yes, I have sent that in my submission.
Then along comes a company that sends out landing charges bills on behalf of airports.
And - as far as I read - admits using the free to air ADS-B data for their billing purposes.
Many have complained to FAA about the misuse of the ADS-B signals for non air safety commercial gain.
Then we go to fitment to "all" VFR aircraft.
In my small single seat aircraft - it physically has nowhere to instal a transponder/ADS-B/GPS. I don't really know how big all that stuff is (is it one thing or three?) but I do know, I don't physically have a place for any of it.
And yes, I have sent that in my submission.
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 181
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From: sydney
It would be nice if you could opt out of being displayed in Flight Radar 24 or similar. Even the police appear in there, albeit with their aircraft type showing and not their rego in some cases. AvTraffic has no controls, all of the police aircraft show up in there and I've literally seen a bunch of Eshays at an Oakleigh restaurant showing each other how to see where the police helicopter is by using AvTraffic. If the gangs out stealing cars know where the air wing are, they cease and desist as they know they will be busted very quickly otherwise. The AFP Survey 400 a C208 flies without showing up, but that's because they turn off their transponder and they are tracked as a primary paint by Mel Centre in a block altitude not below 8,000ft or thereabouts.
Not really. If you watched aircraft taking off out of Moorabbin registered to a private owner, you can drive on over and if there's nobody home, there's a high probability you know exactly where the home owner is.
Not really. If you watched aircraft taking off out of Moorabbin registered to a private owner, you can drive on over and if there's nobody home, there's a high probability you know exactly where the home owner is.
The vicpol xpdr off only applies in CTA I believe. OCTA they can obv be tracked by non redacting sites such as ADSB exch.
yes obviously it’s a terrible state of affairs having the database public. Extraordinary in this day and age really. Unfortunately it’ll take an entirely foreseeable tragedy to elicit change.
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From: USA
ADS-B does not require a transponder, though transponders may have ADS-B Out functionality.
ADS-B Out uses a GPS receiver (these currently fit inside of cell phones) a computer (one fits inside the cell phone along with the GPS receiver) and a transmitter capable of 250W (or so, about the same as a low end car sound system) with an average power consumption under 10W. It may be convenient to have an external GPS antenna - a few centimeters on a side and maybe a centimeter thick. Of course, the ADS-B antenna. The requirement for barometric sensing is met with a chip that is often included in cell phones to get a better estimate of altitude than GPS can provide, particularly in estimating position inside of buildings. A typical such sensor is the MPL3115A2, offered in a 5 mm x 3 mm x 1.1 mm package.
A functional ADS-B In system can fit in a shirt pocket, complete with SDR (synthetic digital radio) receiver (many are the size of a USB memory stick) the typically used Raspberry Pi computer, the display and a small speaker as well as the battery to power it.
It is unlikely there is insufficient room for the functionality to fit, but it is possible certain makers are uncaring about the amount of space they use. What may be a problem is for ADS-B In - there needs to be room for the display, depending on how large a screen one wants or needs. They also make a larger than likely required input screen and keypad for setting some ADS-B Out parameters. Example: https://www.mypilotstore.com/MyPilotStore/sep/14316 is a functional replacement for an aircraft that already has a transponder, integrating the ADS-B into the transponder package.
Just to emphasize - ADS-B is a beacon system, not a transponder system. ADS-B Out is an information source operated like a navigation lamp without regard to any response triggering input.
It can be packaged as shown here: https://costaero.com/product/skybeac...ions=SkyBeacon
No affiliation or endorsement of any seller or manufacturer - these sites are from what Google suggested for "ads-b system"
ADS-B Out uses a GPS receiver (these currently fit inside of cell phones) a computer (one fits inside the cell phone along with the GPS receiver) and a transmitter capable of 250W (or so, about the same as a low end car sound system) with an average power consumption under 10W. It may be convenient to have an external GPS antenna - a few centimeters on a side and maybe a centimeter thick. Of course, the ADS-B antenna. The requirement for barometric sensing is met with a chip that is often included in cell phones to get a better estimate of altitude than GPS can provide, particularly in estimating position inside of buildings. A typical such sensor is the MPL3115A2, offered in a 5 mm x 3 mm x 1.1 mm package.
A functional ADS-B In system can fit in a shirt pocket, complete with SDR (synthetic digital radio) receiver (many are the size of a USB memory stick) the typically used Raspberry Pi computer, the display and a small speaker as well as the battery to power it.
It is unlikely there is insufficient room for the functionality to fit, but it is possible certain makers are uncaring about the amount of space they use. What may be a problem is for ADS-B In - there needs to be room for the display, depending on how large a screen one wants or needs. They also make a larger than likely required input screen and keypad for setting some ADS-B Out parameters. Example: https://www.mypilotstore.com/MyPilotStore/sep/14316 is a functional replacement for an aircraft that already has a transponder, integrating the ADS-B into the transponder package.
Just to emphasize - ADS-B is a beacon system, not a transponder system. ADS-B Out is an information source operated like a navigation lamp without regard to any response triggering input.
It can be packaged as shown here: https://costaero.com/product/skybeac...ions=SkyBeacon
No affiliation or endorsement of any seller or manufacturer - these sites are from what Google suggested for "ads-b system"
Joined: Aug 2022
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From: Melbourne, Victoria
MechEngr, thanks to our beloved CASA, what works in the USA (eg. WAAS) does not automatically work over here. Not if you want the rebate, anyways.
From uAvionix: "Mounted directly on the wingtip, it integrates a 2020 compliant ADS-B 978MHz UAT transmitter" : https://uavionix.com/general-aviation/skybeacon/
From CASA: "ADS-B transmitting equipment (ADS-B OUT) broadcasts on 1090MHz" : https://www.casa.gov.au/operations-s...ow-ads-b-works
We're Australia - we have to be different.
My understanding was that initial issue over here with ADS-B uptake a year or two ago was supply.. you simply couldn't buy and install a certified ADS-B Out device even if you wanted to. EC devices maybe, but not ADS-B Out. The supply situation appears to have improved (Flight Store are saying they now have GTX335's in stock: https://www.flightstore.com.au/garmi...de-encoder-tso), but I'm not aware of any CASA-approved pocket-sized ADS-B Out units in stock anywhere here. Happy to be wrong, because I'd like to buy one.
Of course if you can afford VH-registered aircraft ownership and all the on-costs that entails, it makes sense to register it in the name of a company to claim GST and any similar tax benefits, whilst allaying the above privacy concerns. ie. is it you? or someone else in the pilots seat?
From uAvionix: "Mounted directly on the wingtip, it integrates a 2020 compliant ADS-B 978MHz UAT transmitter" : https://uavionix.com/general-aviation/skybeacon/
From CASA: "ADS-B transmitting equipment (ADS-B OUT) broadcasts on 1090MHz" : https://www.casa.gov.au/operations-s...ow-ads-b-works
We're Australia - we have to be different.
My understanding was that initial issue over here with ADS-B uptake a year or two ago was supply.. you simply couldn't buy and install a certified ADS-B Out device even if you wanted to. EC devices maybe, but not ADS-B Out. The supply situation appears to have improved (Flight Store are saying they now have GTX335's in stock: https://www.flightstore.com.au/garmi...de-encoder-tso), but I'm not aware of any CASA-approved pocket-sized ADS-B Out units in stock anywhere here. Happy to be wrong, because I'd like to buy one.
Of course if you can afford VH-registered aircraft ownership and all the on-costs that entails, it makes sense to register it in the name of a company to claim GST and any similar tax benefits, whilst allaying the above privacy concerns. ie. is it you? or someone else in the pilots seat?
Last edited by PiperCameron; 19th September 2025 at 06:38.
Joined: Aug 2022
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From: Melbourne, Victoria
In my small single seat aircraft - it physically has nowhere to install a transponder/ADS-B/GPS. I don't really know how big all that stuff is (is it one thing or three?) but I do know, I don't physically have a place for any of it.
And yes, I have sent that in my submission.
And yes, I have sent that in my submission.
Aircraft capable of supporting approved ADS-B equipment’s weight, space and power requirements.
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 339
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From: Down there
I see ADS-B in USA was implemented for one purpose, and one only - enhancing air safety.
Then along comes a company that sends out landing charges bills on behalf of airports.
And - as far as I read - admits using the free to air ADS-B data for their billing purposes.
Many have complained to FAA about the misuse of the ADS-B signals for non air safety commercial gain.
Then along comes a company that sends out landing charges bills on behalf of airports.
And - as far as I read - admits using the free to air ADS-B data for their billing purposes.
Many have complained to FAA about the misuse of the ADS-B signals for non air safety commercial gain.
I wish it were the same here.
Joined: Oct 2019
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From: USA
The problem as posed was to have one that fit available space. If the manufacturer wants to, the slight change in transmitter frequency is not insurmountable for compliance. The "Out" part cannot be pocket sized as putting a 250W pulse generator into that size, but the electronics still takes little space as the wingtip light version shows.
The pocket size is ADS-B In. Hobbyists have made useful ones. Just checked. AGS-B In is what I wrote.
The pocket size is ADS-B In. Hobbyists have made useful ones. Just checked. AGS-B In is what I wrote.
Joined: Aug 2022
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From: Melbourne, Victoria
By example, you might as well just use Ozrunways for traffic display and pretend there's no-one else out there (although I believe they've now fixed that 'issue', users here will know what I mean)
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From: USA
As explained, ADS-B transmissions need not originate with the aircraft that is identified. If there is primary radar coverage an ADS-B transmission can be originated by ATC to represent the majority of factors that apply - location, speed, altitude, heading are enough to provide useful situational awareness. If they know any other information that also can be included.
ADS-B In alone is sufficient for drone operators to take active evasive actions to avoid manned aircraft which use ADS-B Out. There is no need for manned aircraft to be distracted by a swarm of drones that are easily able to fly in any direction, to the ground if required, to stay out of their way. There is the question of drones dodging each other and a need for that system, but not for the safety of manned aviation. This is why hobbyists are developing the tech, though in the USA the FAA refuses to ensure that manned operations do their part.
For emergency uses manned aviation could add drones of their own, with ADS-B Out and with ADS-B repeaters so that aircraft operating in areas where the signals are degraded by operating in irregular terrain could maintain adequate situational awareness while giving emergency and amateur drone operations the total picture they need.
ADS-B In alone is sufficient for drone operators to take active evasive actions to avoid manned aircraft which use ADS-B Out. There is no need for manned aircraft to be distracted by a swarm of drones that are easily able to fly in any direction, to the ground if required, to stay out of their way. There is the question of drones dodging each other and a need for that system, but not for the safety of manned aviation. This is why hobbyists are developing the tech, though in the USA the FAA refuses to ensure that manned operations do their part.
For emergency uses manned aviation could add drones of their own, with ADS-B Out and with ADS-B repeaters so that aircraft operating in areas where the signals are degraded by operating in irregular terrain could maintain adequate situational awareness while giving emergency and amateur drone operations the total picture they need.
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From: Melbourne
As explained, ADS-B transmissions need not originate with the aircraft that is identified. If there is primary radar coverage an ADS-B transmission can be originated by ATC to represent the majority of factors that apply - location, speed, altitude, heading are enough to provide useful situational awareness. If they know any other information that also can be included.
In remote areas using ADSB in, I can see all other aircraft with ADSB out. What you’re suggesting would cover only a small part of the airspace.
If all aircraft are equipped with out as a minimum, safety outcomes will result.
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From: USA
I don't believe that is true. 900 - 1000 MHz are line of sight frequencies and won't allow a plane in one valley to detect another in another valley. I appreciate that Australia is rather flat and maybe there aren't valleys, but in the US there have been collisions between fire-fighting aircraft that should have been avoidable.
What I specifically said was that planes with no ADS-B Out would have ADS-B out synthesized for them by ground stations that are using primary radar to track them. There isn't something that makes this sequence impossible. If there is no primary radar, a separate sequence, that is a different problem.
As to the last bit, yes. It is very helpful to have ADS-B Out on all manned aircraft. No disagreement there.
What I specifically said was that planes with no ADS-B Out would have ADS-B out synthesized for them by ground stations that are using primary radar to track them. There isn't something that makes this sequence impossible. If there is no primary radar, a separate sequence, that is a different problem.
As to the last bit, yes. It is very helpful to have ADS-B Out on all manned aircraft. No disagreement there.