C172 down near Camden - one fatality
Incredibly sad.
I logged lots of happy hours in that aircraft back in the day.
I logged lots of happy hours in that aircraft back in the day.
It somehow seems to hit especially hard if you've been a pilot or even passenger in the aircraft involved. There is a kind of sad poetic nostalgia to be experienced here, and I've been affected by it a few times - once after a C-210 accident where all aboard perished; I had been in the RH seat of that aircraft only a few days before, and had hand flown most of the more simple part of the route. The others were the loss of a couple gliders in which I had logged up quite a few hours in my own solo adventures. Deepest sympathy to all involved.
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As above, does come across as strange. I don’t think someone at this level would have any understanding of the AP, or have ever been shown. Fiddling with the AP is another issue, I hope that isn’t the case, and I fail to see why one would even play with it on a simply circuit.
All I can think of here is something was amiss with the aircraft itself.
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Track doesn’t indicate any serious angle of bank. Track was slightly to the left at the end, but doesn’t reflect much of a bank of all.
As above, does come across as strange. I don’t think someone at this level would have any understanding of the AP, or have ever been shown. Fiddling with the AP is another issue, I hope that isn’t the case, and I fail to see why one would even play with it on a simply circuit.
All I can think of here is something was amiss with the aircraft itself.
As above, does come across as strange. I don’t think someone at this level would have any understanding of the AP, or have ever been shown. Fiddling with the AP is another issue, I hope that isn’t the case, and I fail to see why one would even play with it on a simply circuit.
All I can think of here is something was amiss with the aircraft itself.
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Looks to have gone from circuit height to the ground in about 8 seconds at more than 10,000 fpm. I'm thinking structural failure?
So sad for the young lad and his family
So sad for the young lad and his family
If flaps were extended then suffered a cable failure it could cause a roll. The right flap is driven directly by an actuator rod connected to the flap motor and the left flap by a cable to a crank then an actuator rod. If the cable failed the left flap could retract because of air loads. Still all speculation. Lets wait for the investigation shall we?
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There are always some who say we shouldn’t speculate, that is understandable, but this is a network of pilots so it’s not ghoulish to discuss it, always keeping in mind that journos could be reading and what is written here is more credible than some of the rubbish they dream up.
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There’s a massive telltale sign in the picture… it’s the large swathe that has been cut across the paddock. It is not at all reflective of the recent crashes of the Cirrus and Tecnam and the damage is not indicative of a stall / spin with limited forward travel as the wings appear have been level at impact.
Wild speculation on my behalf, however the damage looks to be high speed and at a high rate of descent. Is a high speed stall in the usual sense possible in a 172?
Wild speculation on my behalf, however the damage looks to be high speed and at a high rate of descent. Is a high speed stall in the usual sense possible in a 172?
Last edited by Squawk7700; 25th Jan 2024 at 19:56.
talking about journalists - on this morning's abc news for Australia day we are going to have an 'aerial fly past' over the Sydney Harbour - nearly as good as he was shot and 'killed fataly' by police - or he was "innundated'by smoke -
I hope Keith Williams can do something about his journalists & their command of the Engllish language.
I hope Keith Williams can do something about his journalists & their command of the Engllish language.
The timing here is very interesting. I’m not overly familiar with the many models of 172, is 10% Flap able to be pulled on downwind above 80
knots?
It appears they had started the base turn, or perhaps they didn’t. The Flap comment above is an option when looking at the track, however that would indicate they had applied flap while maintaining a downwind heading. Flap asymmetry would become a startle issue for most low hour pilots, full aileron correction will be required almost immediately, with the corresponding reduction in flaps in the other. A couple of seconds lost in startle will become very troublesome, you will be in a violent roll before you know it.
I doubt that applying 10% flap on downwind would cause such roll/loss of control if the left cable failed. Heavy flap application which I would expect once established base, is an option.
Last edited by nomess; 25th Jan 2024 at 21:29.
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The low speed on the ADSB is a red-herring because if it was hypothetically diving steeply to get to the suggested descent rate, the airspeed would not increase significantly on the ADSB feed.
It wreaks of some kind of stall/spin, however the swathe and condition of the wreckage mostly disagrees. It’s interesting. I’m guessing a 16 year old on a first solo may have been recording on a GoPro.
It wreaks of some kind of stall/spin, however the swathe and condition of the wreckage mostly disagrees. It’s interesting. I’m guessing a 16 year old on a first solo may have been recording on a GoPro.
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As an ex Camden controller from many years ago I would have to say that downwind leg doesn’t look right, wouldn’t be obvious from the tower but it looks like the pilot was distracted by something based on the track. Terrible event and my condolences to all affected, I have a 15 year old looking at flying as soon as possible and I need to remind myself this is a rare event.
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Yes, 10 degrees at under 110kts or so, therefore everything appeared to be tracking as one would have expected... until it didn't.
Unrelated, but I heard on the news the student pilot had been with Altocap for around a month, so I'd assume he'd done a least a few hours in the 172. If the alleged 40 odd hours with RAaus is correct, then he shouldn't have had any issue completing the circuit. Surely there must be more to the story than simply pilot error. I sincerely hope the investigation leads to a concrete conclusion.
Was it G1000 equipped like the other aircraft they have that is/are?
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always keeping in mind that journos could be reading and what is written here is more credible than some of the rubbish they dream up.
If this was his first solo as reported then clearly he was not ready to be sent solo. After all he did not even get around the circuit let alone attempt a landing. I also have concerns that he attempted it in a C172 and not something a bit lighter such as a C150 given he came from RAaus . Sixteen is very young to be rushed through to GA. I think the flying school snd the instructor who cleared him will have a bit of explaining to do and rightfully so. Unfortunately for them but our thoughts should be with the family who put their trust in that school.
I’m sure there’s plenty of 16 year olds out there who would disagree with you regarding your concerns about them flying a C172 🙄
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First up im a newbie and this tragedy brought me here.
Condolences to the families and all those involved.
For what it is worth I was trained in that aircraft and it was a good one when it was at airborne, I liked it.
Having had a brief look at the flight tracking info on this accident it makes little sense to me and we will wait for the investigation.
With the flap issue pointed out in this post by Deaf that does make some sense, i was taught based on my memory, after downwind do a gumps check abeam the runway, set 1500 rpm, 10deg of flaps, trim wait for 80 knots or 45deg to runway and turn base.
It would seem whatever befell this poor student would have happened somewhere when I was trained about when flaps 10 were selected.
This is all without evidence of course and not worth much but I felt compelled to share.
Condolences to the families and all those involved.
For what it is worth I was trained in that aircraft and it was a good one when it was at airborne, I liked it.
Having had a brief look at the flight tracking info on this accident it makes little sense to me and we will wait for the investigation.
With the flap issue pointed out in this post by Deaf that does make some sense, i was taught based on my memory, after downwind do a gumps check abeam the runway, set 1500 rpm, 10deg of flaps, trim wait for 80 knots or 45deg to runway and turn base.
It would seem whatever befell this poor student would have happened somewhere when I was trained about when flaps 10 were selected.
This is all without evidence of course and not worth much but I felt compelled to share.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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ATC indicated it was a first solo to the pilot who located the accident site.
Technically it was the young fella's first solo in VH aircraft. He had over 40 hours as I recall it in RA aircraft and was cleared solo in them. He had come to CN today for his check and solo clearance from Altocap.
The wreckage was spotted and reported by another Pilot who happened to be on his first solo in any aircraft!
Now can we stick to the facts and stop slagging any Instructors etc?
Oh and BTW, Re flying at a young age; I had my first solo in a Glider (An Es 52 Kookaburra Mk 4) off a winch launch at age 15. I would suggest that flying a Glider can be just as 'complicated' as a C172.