Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions
Reload this Page >

C172 down near Camden - one fatality

Wikiposts
Search
The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions The place for students, instructors and charter guys in Oz, NZ and the rest of Oceania.

C172 down near Camden - one fatality

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 24th Jan 2024, 07:11
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 807
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
C172 down near Camden - one fatality

https://www.9news.com.au/national/fl...0-9387e5c96888

appears to have happened downwind in the circuit
bentleg is offline  

Top Answer

26th Jan 2024, 19:42
FlyHighLittleOne
 
Join Date: Jan 2024
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 18 Likes on 1 Post
I hope you all don't mind a random interjection, I stumbled across this forum looking at articles frustrated at the incorrect information and saw people not judging him for his age or ability, just the accident. It was a really nice change to what's been around, so thank you. I know absolutely nothing about planes, just this young man. Very very well.
Everyone seems to be interested in this accident and as enthusiasts and professionals I can appreciate the desire for speculation about what happened, even if I don't fully understand them.

Whilst it was his first solo with the flight school, he'd been up in his first solo almost 2 years previously. He was almost an exact month off that anniversary actually. He was young, and only a week out from his 17th birthday so he had been up in the air for just shy of 3 years. I know you all know what it takes to get up there and you might not think he had enough to do it but I can tell you that kid worked harder than any person I have ever seen anywhere and deserved so much more life than he got. He was an absolute pleasure to know, and pride and joy in my life.
Old 24th Jan 2024, 07:36
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: Oz
Posts: 153
Received 101 Likes on 51 Posts
Reports of first Solo, however just speculation. Absolute tragedy, RIP.

It would appear it has occurred just prior to the base turn. Looking at the FR24 data, doesn’t appear to have stalled. Looks like getting configured for the base turn, you can see the speed pull back from 90-80 knots. Still maintaining a relatively normal downwind heading. Appears like a spiral dive or somewhat?
nomess is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2024, 08:24
  #3 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 807
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
It was Altocap's C172S VH-CPQ - no other details.

ATC can be heard on LiveATC - YSCN archive at 04:10 UTC.
bentleg is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2024, 08:43
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Sydney
Age: 62
Posts: 458
Received 21 Likes on 6 Posts
Originally Posted by nomess
Reports of first Solo, however just speculation. Absolute tragedy, RIP.
ATC indicated it was a first solo to the pilot who located the accident site.
roundsounds is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2024, 08:50
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: OZ
Posts: 1,125
Received 12 Likes on 6 Posts
Technically it was the young fella's first solo in VH aircraft. He had over 40 hours as I recall it in RA aircraft and was cleared solo in them. He had come to CN today for his check and solo clearance from Altocap.
I'm a bit shook up myself coz we were chatting in the crew room just prior to our both heading off to go flying. Then I get back and hear this...so sad.
mustafagander is offline  
The following 4 users liked this post by mustafagander:
Old 24th Jan 2024, 11:25
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Sydney
Posts: 116
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Seems a bit odd it was up to other circuit traffic to spot a missing (GA) first solo. I'd assume the students instructor would've been watching with a hawks eye?
Styx75 is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2024, 12:06
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,878
Received 193 Likes on 100 Posts
Originally Posted by Styx75
Seems a bit odd it was up to other circuit traffic to spot a missing (GA) first solo. I'd assume the students instructor would've been watching with a hawks eye?
The instructor would be on the ground. An eye in the sky would be far more useful.
Squawk7700 is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2024, 19:48
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: these mist covered mountains are a home now for me.
Posts: 1,784
Received 29 Likes on 12 Posts
Relying an airspeed to indicate a stall is a major flaw. A tight turn and unbalanced flight can also result in an unrecoverable stall - regardless of a Groundspeed indication.
Runaway Gun is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2024, 20:38
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: adelaide, Australia
Posts: 469
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
If this was his first solo as reported then clearly he was not ready to be sent solo. After all he did not even get around the circuit let alone attempt a landing. I also have concerns that he attempted it in a C172 and not something a bit lighter such as a C150 given he came from RAaus . Sixteen is very young to be rushed through to GA. I think the flying school snd the instructor who cleared him will have a bit of explaining to do and rightfully so. Unfortunately for them but our thoughts should be with the family who put their trust in that school.
mostlytossas is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 24th Jan 2024, 20:40
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 405
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Incredibly sad.
I logged lots of happy hours in that aircraft back in the day.
On Track is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2024, 21:16
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,878
Received 193 Likes on 100 Posts
Originally Posted by mostlytossas
If this was his first solo as reported then clearly he was not ready to be sent solo.
The engine is still warm, we have no idea what happened yet!
Squawk7700 is offline  
The following 3 users liked this post by Squawk7700:
Old 24th Jan 2024, 21:27
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Found in Toronto
Posts: 615
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/351125
Lost in Saigon is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2024, 21:38
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,789
Received 415 Likes on 229 Posts
Originally Posted by mostlytossas
If this was his first solo as reported then clearly he was not ready to be sent solo. After all he did not even get around the circuit let alone attempt a landing. I also have concerns that he attempted it in a C172 and not something a bit lighter such as a C150 given he came from RAaus . Sixteen is very young to be rushed through to GA. I think the flying school snd the instructor who cleared him will have a bit of explaining to do and rightfully so. Unfortunately for them but our thoughts should be with the family who put their trust in that school.
We have no idea what happened, for all we know there could have been structural failure. Blaming anyone at this point is just silly.

As for being rushed through to GA, 10s of thousands of pilots have gone solo in Cessna 172 types, many 1000s being teenagers with far less hours than what is reported in this scenario.

At about the same age I did my first flight in a 172, with similar experience, after an hour with an instructor I flew at max weight with 3 mates around the training area.

Whatever happened it was a very rare event during a solo in what is a benign training aircraft type.
43Inches is offline  
The following 3 users liked this post by 43Inches:
Old 24th Jan 2024, 21:42
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NSW Australia
Posts: 2,455
Received 33 Likes on 15 Posts
How absolutely heartbreaking for all involved. You can only imagine how George and the authorising instructor must feel today - never mind the student's family. I can't begin to imagine how crushing that would be.
So very very sad.

Last edited by Horatio Leafblower; 24th Jan 2024 at 22:34.
Horatio Leafblower is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2024, 22:15
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cab of a Freight Train
Posts: 1,218
Received 117 Likes on 61 Posts
Originally Posted by mostlytossas
If this was his first solo as reported then clearly he was not ready to be sent solo.
That's a bit rough I think.

If the reported 40H under RAAus are accurate, that implies he already held an RPC and (I'm speculating here) was upgrading to either an R or PPL - so he has likely already gone solo and presumably passed his RPC flight test. I feel for both the instructor and the pilots family, as parents we naturally want to keep our kids safe, but also not restrict them from broadening their horizons. Sadly, sometimes they don't come home from it.
KRviator is offline  
The following 3 users liked this post by KRviator:
Old 24th Jan 2024, 23:03
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posts: 552
Received 81 Likes on 63 Posts
Originally Posted by KRviator
That's a bit rough I think.

If the reported 40H under RAAus are accurate, that implies he already held an RPC and (I'm speculating here) was upgrading to either an R or PPL - so he has likely already gone solo and presumably passed his RPC flight test. I feel for both the instructor and the pilots family, as parents we naturally want to keep our kids safe, but also not restrict them from broadening their horizons. Sadly, sometimes they don't come home from it.
Indeed. This one makes me think of the 19 year old who lost her life on a solo navex in a 172 west of Melbourne a few years back following an issue with the trim system. There were lots of learnings out of that one but it's still very sad and should be a reminder to all that it's very easy to blame the pilot in the absence of detailed information.
PiperCameron is offline  
Old 24th Jan 2024, 23:23
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2024
Location: Sydney
Posts: 17
Received 7 Likes on 4 Posts
Many kids do their first solo in a 172, it's a perfectly suitable training aircraft. George at Altocap is a great guy and it's hard to imagine one of his planes could have had a mechanical failure that would have brought it down so quickly. Also hard to imagine someone with (allegedly) 40+ hours could manage to cock things up so badly. Medical episode? I'm really scratching my head on this. No matter the why or wherefore, it will be hard felt within the close knit flying community at Camden. Very tragic for all concerned.
jonas64 is offline  
The following users liked this post:
Old 25th Jan 2024, 00:13
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2023
Location: Oz
Posts: 153
Received 101 Likes on 51 Posts
Would be interesting to hear from someone around performance characteristics from transitioning RAus to a GA machine. Assuming they held a RPC, so likely only 0-10 hours in a VH machine.
nomess is offline  
Old 25th Jan 2024, 01:11
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Aus
Posts: 2,789
Received 415 Likes on 229 Posts
Originally Posted by nomess
Would be interesting to hear from someone around performance characteristics from transitioning RAus to a GA machine. Assuming they held a RPC, so likely only 0-10 hours in a VH machine.
I've flown, drifters, skyfox, lightwing and jabirus, they all have the same controls and if anything more vices than GA trainers. If you know how to fly, you know how to fly...
43Inches is offline  
The following 11 users liked this post by 43Inches:
Old 25th Jan 2024, 02:51
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,878
Received 193 Likes on 100 Posts
Originally Posted by nomess
Would be interesting to hear from someone around performance characteristics from transitioning RAus to a GA machine. Assuming they held a RPC, so likely only 0-10 hours in a VH machine.
I did exactly that. I had 500 hours in Gazelle's / Eurofox and stepped into a 172. The nose attitude in the 172 is so much lower and they climb much slower, like a Mack truck compared to a sports car. Had I been left un-instructed, I may have got dangerously slow on my first takeoff climb!
Squawk7700 is offline  
The following users liked this post:


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.