Beware if you carry a Leatherman in QLD…
Thread Starter
Beware if you carry a Leatherman in QLD…
Warning for anyone interacting with police while wearing a multi-tool.
Got the equivalent of a ramp check driving my (ahem) slightly modified Hilux home a few weeks back and as I was raising the bonnet so Sgt. Reasonable could check the compliance plate, I was suddenly instructed, “Stop. Put your hands on the vehicle and don’t move.”
I beg your pardon?
”I said don’t move. put your hands on the vehicle and do not make any sudden movements.”
Upon complying, he removes my Leatherman multi-tool from its belt pouch and having saved the suburb from the impending stabbing rampage, the conversation progresses as follows;
”Why are you carrying a weapon in public?”
I’m not in public. I’m in my own vehicle on my way home.
”Well, a butcher can’t just walk down the street after work with his knives, can he?”
I’m not walking down the street, I’m in my own vehicle on the way home.
”Your vehicle is classed as a public place. A cowboy can’t go to the pub after work with his knife on his belt.”
(Obviously hasn’t been to a country pub lately.)
But I’m not going to the pub, I’m going straight home.
”Well it needs to be secured. If you get road raged and get out of your vehicle, you have a weapon at close hand. Any judge in QLD is going to convict you.”
What am I going to do, give them the world’s worst purple nurple with the pliers?
Gave up trying to reason with him at this stage. FFS…
Got the equivalent of a ramp check driving my (ahem) slightly modified Hilux home a few weeks back and as I was raising the bonnet so Sgt. Reasonable could check the compliance plate, I was suddenly instructed, “Stop. Put your hands on the vehicle and don’t move.”
I beg your pardon?
”I said don’t move. put your hands on the vehicle and do not make any sudden movements.”
Upon complying, he removes my Leatherman multi-tool from its belt pouch and having saved the suburb from the impending stabbing rampage, the conversation progresses as follows;
”Why are you carrying a weapon in public?”
I’m not in public. I’m in my own vehicle on my way home.
”Well, a butcher can’t just walk down the street after work with his knives, can he?”
I’m not walking down the street, I’m in my own vehicle on the way home.
”Your vehicle is classed as a public place. A cowboy can’t go to the pub after work with his knife on his belt.”
(Obviously hasn’t been to a country pub lately.)
But I’m not going to the pub, I’m going straight home.
”Well it needs to be secured. If you get road raged and get out of your vehicle, you have a weapon at close hand. Any judge in QLD is going to convict you.”
What am I going to do, give them the world’s worst purple nurple with the pliers?
Gave up trying to reason with him at this stage. FFS…
Security at airports now are hit and miss with Leathermans, many airlines clarified that they don't consider them tools of the trade anymore. (probably management don't want pilots with anymore sharp objects than they need when around them).
Is there actually a law preventing that? I thought you were just not allowed the conceal knives or carry prohibited weapons, can't say I'd look twice if a butcher walked past carrying knives in a non aggressive manner. What about a Chef, or handyman with a truck full of saws and sharp things...
Some of this stuff just really smacks of very low intelligence interpreting bad laws.
”Well, a butcher can’t just walk down the street after work with his knives, can he?”
Some of this stuff just really smacks of very low intelligence interpreting bad laws.
He’s absolutely correct by the letter of the law, however common sense should have prevailed and he should have realistically said nothing to you about it.
The following 3 users liked this post by aussieflyboy:
Is it illegal in Queensland to carry any blade in public or just one greater than a certain length. Most multi tools have a blade less than 3" long which is legal in many countries.
I tend to leave mine at work as it sets off the metal detector when going airside. 😁
I tend to leave mine at work as it sets off the metal detector when going airside. 😁
He’s absolutely correct by the letter of the law, however common sense should have prevailed and he should have realistically said nothing to you about it.
a person may carry a pen knife or swiss army knife for use for its normal utility purpose.
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Thread Starter
Have actually written to the QLD Police Commissioner’s office for a clarification on whether a Swiss Army Knife and Leatherman are regarded in the same light.
Try WA Police. One 757 Freighter crew was told the Captain could enter crew quarantine and leave on the outbound flight, the FO was told two weeks in isolation and the engineer was told entry was denied and get on the next flight out!
Based on what I saw at Brissie airport during Covid common sense in lacking amongst the QLD Police.
I just read through the Queensland police guidance on acceptable excuses for carrying a knife and;
So the officer is not correct in accosting somebody for carrying a small utility blade by their own advice. Unless you said something stupid like you had the Leatherman for self defense instead of general use for repairs and stuff.
So the officer is not correct in accosting somebody for carrying a small utility blade by their own advice. Unless you said something stupid like you had the Leatherman for self defense instead of general use for repairs and stuff.
The law is deliberately a little grey so that the officer can use their judgement without being specific. If it was casa it would be specific and would read more like this example:
1. You can carry a leather man if you satisfy parts a, b, c, d and or a and d
a. You are carrying the knife when employed wholly in one of the professions in section 2
b. You are carrying the leather man as required by your employer
c. You are not carrying fare paying passengers
d. The leather man is required to open canned food for your assistance dog
Then you need to research section 2 which is 2 pages further in.
As I was suggesting, the officer should have let it go.
This is why you say nothing when arrested, as the victim here could later state in court that the blade was required to cut a cable-tie which was hindering his ability to view the compliance plate on the Hilux.
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7700. Nice one …
but you missed the CAsA classic preamble ..A person , he or she *commits an offence of strict liability if..
All followed by numerous pages of imaginary “unsafe” scenarios and confusing waffle.
* in bureaucratic speak those pronouns are now verboten and ‘ multi-persons’ or some other wording only allowed.
but you missed the CAsA classic preamble ..A person , he or she *commits an offence of strict liability if..
All followed by numerous pages of imaginary “unsafe” scenarios and confusing waffle.
* in bureaucratic speak those pronouns are now verboten and ‘ multi-persons’ or some other wording only allowed.
Just wear leather hiking/work boots and claim the Leatherman is for fixing various clothing items you are wearing as they need. All you need to do is justify you are carrying it for a non combatant/stabby purpose. Just don't be stupid and carry the kit into restricted areas, like airports, on public transport or around schools etc... Unless your job requires you need the tool in those areas. As a GA pilot who is approved for pilot maintenance there is no problem carrying such a tool airside. Airlines will say otherwise as they don't want you chopping things on the aircraft, that being said a leatherman would have been useful on several occasions where we were almost grounded due to lockers jamming shut, and various other not really airworthiness things where a tool would help pry/cut open something. In those cases I was able to use my jail skills to create makeshift pointy things to do the same from readily available stuff. I guess the laws don't realize that criminals can be resourceful as well, after all they still manage to procure weapons and kill each other in the lockup. I'm surprised that Queensland hasn't banned coat hangers in public to cut down on car theft...
PS I have no issue with knife laws that stop kids (or anyone else) from carrying blades for the obvious use of harm to others. I can only assume that the police officer possibly thought you were holstering a flick knife or similar and not a pocket utility knife, and over reacted. But reality is someone could (and will) carry something else pointy for the same reasons, and you can't ban everything...or can you?
PS I have no issue with knife laws that stop kids (or anyone else) from carrying blades for the obvious use of harm to others. I can only assume that the police officer possibly thought you were holstering a flick knife or similar and not a pocket utility knife, and over reacted. But reality is someone could (and will) carry something else pointy for the same reasons, and you can't ban everything...or can you?
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It's 40 years since I lived in Brissie. Please, someone tell me what's a compliance plate?
It sounds from the first two or three paragraphs of your preamble above that something about your vehicle, and then you yourself got up the policeman’s nose, so he needed something/anything to book/warn you with, and the rest was history.
The following 2 users liked this post by jolihokistix:
Don’t read anything from the OP to wind up the Plod. Give some people a uniform and some power …and away they go.
I don’t see the need for the Plod to come the ‘Freeze MF’ routine.
He could have just asked if it was a watch, knife pouch and being so advised, make some civil comment about knives and the carrying of.
I don’t see the need for the Plod to come the ‘Freeze MF’ routine.
He could have just asked if it was a watch, knife pouch and being so advised, make some civil comment about knives and the carrying of.
One the airside I quite commonly carry a sharp folding knife. A leather Man or small folding knife. While I do not make an obvious showing I am prepared to argue the toss if bailed up by someone who claims authority. My explanation is that it is a tool of trade. There have been many cases of air accidents (and car accidents!) where the seat belt jams and has to be cut to get the body held free.
Ask any Paramedic.
If one looks at any post crash report it is often mentioned that a knife was or was not included in the pilots survival kit. On the person is better than in a bag that gets lost. The same applies to an ELT. Every survival kit list has a knife included close to the top of that list.
Ask Plod if he checks in his side arm when he leaves the police station to go across the road to the sandwich shop for a sandwich. Does he check in his side arm before he leaves the station? To the sandwich shop is off duty.
So you carry a Swiss Army pocket knife? Short blade. 3" ? If Plod wants to arrest you then he should be doing same to every Boy Scout in the country. How many times have you heard of a daytime bush walker or hiker who has nothing in the way of kit for self sustainment?
The key items are a knife, a fire lighting device and a jacket or like cover to stop hypothermia.
For a pilot working in a remote area a knife is a must. But be discreate about it.
Around the big smoke I leave my knife in my flight bag out of sight when I leave airside. If travelling by airline to a location I leave the knife in my check in bag.
I recall bumping into an ADF guy at the Avalon Air Show some years back. He had a folding knife hitched in his pocket. I noted that and asked to compare notes. His knife was the same as mine. He said that he had once been bailed up by Plod or like and asked what his justification for carrying a knife was? He replied that he had been in one or two air crashes and had had to cut people out of their jammed seat belts to free them The discussion with the asker finished there.
At the end of the day common sense should prevail.
Sometimes that lacks in some people who claim authority.
Ask any Paramedic.
If one looks at any post crash report it is often mentioned that a knife was or was not included in the pilots survival kit. On the person is better than in a bag that gets lost. The same applies to an ELT. Every survival kit list has a knife included close to the top of that list.
Ask Plod if he checks in his side arm when he leaves the police station to go across the road to the sandwich shop for a sandwich. Does he check in his side arm before he leaves the station? To the sandwich shop is off duty.
So you carry a Swiss Army pocket knife? Short blade. 3" ? If Plod wants to arrest you then he should be doing same to every Boy Scout in the country. How many times have you heard of a daytime bush walker or hiker who has nothing in the way of kit for self sustainment?
The key items are a knife, a fire lighting device and a jacket or like cover to stop hypothermia.
For a pilot working in a remote area a knife is a must. But be discreate about it.
Around the big smoke I leave my knife in my flight bag out of sight when I leave airside. If travelling by airline to a location I leave the knife in my check in bag.
I recall bumping into an ADF guy at the Avalon Air Show some years back. He had a folding knife hitched in his pocket. I noted that and asked to compare notes. His knife was the same as mine. He said that he had once been bailed up by Plod or like and asked what his justification for carrying a knife was? He replied that he had been in one or two air crashes and had had to cut people out of their jammed seat belts to free them The discussion with the asker finished there.
At the end of the day common sense should prevail.
Sometimes that lacks in some people who claim authority.
Way back yonder, about a week before 9/11, I was in in Newark going through security, heading back to Australia.
I forgot I had purchased my long awaited Leatherman tool, and was wearing it on my belt under my shirt. Going through security & it went off. As I patted myself down wondering what it was as you just wore belts back standard then, I realised, ad gave it to the security officer. He unfolded it, asked what it was, and didn't care. Just said put it in my carry on bag because the cabin crew provide cutlery LOL.
Times have changed!!!!
I forgot I had purchased my long awaited Leatherman tool, and was wearing it on my belt under my shirt. Going through security & it went off. As I patted myself down wondering what it was as you just wore belts back standard then, I realised, ad gave it to the security officer. He unfolded it, asked what it was, and didn't care. Just said put it in my carry on bag because the cabin crew provide cutlery LOL.
Times have changed!!!!
Don’t read anything from the OP to wind up the Plod. Give some people a uniform and some power …and away they go.
I don’t see the need for the Plod to come the ‘Freeze MF’ routine.
He could have just asked if it was a watch, knife pouch and being so advised, make some civil comment about knives and the carrying of.
I don’t see the need for the Plod to come the ‘Freeze MF’ routine.
He could have just asked if it was a watch, knife pouch and being so advised, make some civil comment about knives and the carrying of.
Remember the recent case where the cops tasered a 95 year old granny in a nursing home because she had a knife in her hands.
The OP should consider himself lucky that he wasn’t tasered by the cop. They appear to derive a perverse pleasure in watching people writhe in pain.
The OP should consider himself lucky that he wasn’t tasered by the cop. They appear to derive a perverse pleasure in watching people writhe in pain.