$100K type rating bond???
I was a GV Captain. But I never got anywhere close to earning 300k a year! A complete resignation to no life outside of work and horrible abuse by employer bought me about 100k a year! Then upon renewal with no job 100k required for a 5 day sim course to be paid by me in the hope of finding a job? I don't think so!
Gulfstream world is utterly vile with egomaniacs stabbing everyone in sight so be careful what you wish for?
100k for ANY bond is appalling of course. But what is the situation if they fire you before the bond expiry?
I have refused jobs over bonds. Most recently with a "non decreasing bond." That is simply unfair and needs to be binned by everyone. But people accept it.
Unfortunately there are always Ar@e lickers everywhere in aviation that will agree to anything to get one over the next guy. Thereby destroying everyone's future.
Gulfstream world is utterly vile with egomaniacs stabbing everyone in sight so be careful what you wish for?
100k for ANY bond is appalling of course. But what is the situation if they fire you before the bond expiry?
I have refused jobs over bonds. Most recently with a "non decreasing bond." That is simply unfair and needs to be binned by everyone. But people accept it.
Unfortunately there are always Ar@e lickers everywhere in aviation that will agree to anything to get one over the next guy. Thereby destroying everyone's future.
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Granted, Keg's post is a few years old and unconfirmed, but the rates listed in 2018 were ~$71K for 0A and ~$51 for the FO, which tends to align with Rex as well, from what I understand. The Pelican 2011 EBA has $47,859 listed as the starting salary, though I can't find a newer one.
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100k bond for a 55k salary is a terrible deal. There are better jobs going at the moment where you can get paid twice as much and bonded 20% this amount. Why would anyone sign up?
The business geniuses running these companies are forever scratching their heads wondering why people leave. Meanwhile the only idea they ever have is “Let’s try screwing them harder see if that works”.
55k salary? Sorry kids no toys this Christmas. Also I turned that jet job down even though it would triple my income. But look how loyal I am!
In my experience employers that bang on about ‘return of service’ are often the ones you want to avoid for a lot of reasons anyway.
The business geniuses running these companies are forever scratching their heads wondering why people leave. Meanwhile the only idea they ever have is “Let’s try screwing them harder see if that works”.
55k salary? Sorry kids no toys this Christmas. Also I turned that jet job down even though it would triple my income. But look how loyal I am!
In my experience employers that bang on about ‘return of service’ are often the ones you want to avoid for a lot of reasons anyway.
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Has anyone else noticed that since the award was changed to allow bonding only for 50% of the cost of a type rating, that training costs have magically inflated by 100%?
Where previously operators would bond (without backing of the award if they ever tried to enforce) for 100% the genuine costs of a type rating (aircraft, sim, ground school etc.), they now add every single conceivable cost in at full commercial markup to get the 50% cost to the same figure as they used to.
Seems like the award needs to more clearly spell out what costs are bondable and which costs are just costs of running an aviation business borne by the employer.
Where previously operators would bond (without backing of the award if they ever tried to enforce) for 100% the genuine costs of a type rating (aircraft, sim, ground school etc.), they now add every single conceivable cost in at full commercial markup to get the 50% cost to the same figure as they used to.
Seems like the award needs to more clearly spell out what costs are bondable and which costs are just costs of running an aviation business borne by the employer.
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That depends on how aggressive the employer is in chasing it. Then, who has the better lawyers.
The problem with sniveling on a bond is that in Oz this industry is too small for a pilot to risk reputational damage.
OTOH some operators don’t give a rat’s arse about a reputation for being hard-nose. It tends to keep their pilots in line.
The problem with sniveling on a bond is that in Oz this industry is too small for a pilot to risk reputational damage.
OTOH some operators don’t give a rat’s arse about a reputation for being hard-nose. It tends to keep their pilots in line.
That depends on how aggressive the employer is in chasing it. Then, who has the better lawyers.
The problem with sniveling on a bond is that in Oz this industry is too small for a pilot to risk reputational damage.
OTOH some operators don’t give a rat’s arse about a reputation for being hard-nose. It tends to keep their pilots in line.
The problem with sniveling on a bond is that in Oz this industry is too small for a pilot to risk reputational damage.
OTOH some operators don’t give a rat’s arse about a reputation for being hard-nose. It tends to keep their pilots in line.
A very clear case of exploitation and fraud.
Operators like these are a disgrace and have been for the last 50 years that I know of, they have no business in the industry.
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It's crazy to see people defending this garbage. Meanwhile US regionals are giving sign-on bonuses paid out over time, longevity matches and and structured flow programs to keep their employees.
I was a GV Captain. But I never got anywhere close to earning 300k a year! A complete resignation to no life outside of work and horrible abuse by employer bought me about 100k a year! Then upon renewal with no job 100k required for a 5 day sim course to be paid by me in the hope of finding a job? I don't think so!
Gulfstream world is utterly vile with egomaniacs stabbing everyone in sight so be careful what you wish for?
100k for ANY bond is appalling of course. But what is the situation if they fire you before the bond expiry?
I have refused jobs over bonds. Most recently with a "non decreasing bond." That is simply unfair and needs to be binned by everyone. But people accept it.
Unfortunately there are always Ar@e lickers everywhere in aviation that will agree to anything to get one over the next guy. Thereby destroying everyone's future.
Gulfstream world is utterly vile with egomaniacs stabbing everyone in sight so be careful what you wish for?
100k for ANY bond is appalling of course. But what is the situation if they fire you before the bond expiry?
I have refused jobs over bonds. Most recently with a "non decreasing bond." That is simply unfair and needs to be binned by everyone. But people accept it.
Unfortunately there are always Ar@e lickers everywhere in aviation that will agree to anything to get one over the next guy. Thereby destroying everyone's future.
How is it reasonable for someone to pay their own wage when the company is operating that flight as a revenue flight? For a trainee to cover the cost of their training captains?
It's crazy to see people defending this garbage. Meanwhile US regionals are giving sign-on bonuses paid out over time, longevity matches and and structured flow programs to keep their employees.
It's crazy to see people defending this garbage. Meanwhile US regionals are giving sign-on bonuses paid out over time, longevity matches and and structured flow programs to keep their employees.
And let's be real, the only people that would be defending this type of arrangement would be individuals who have a vested interest in the company. Everyone else can see how ridiculous this is in 2023.
How is it reasonable for someone to pay their own wage when the company is operating that flight as a revenue flight? For a trainee to cover the cost of their training captains?
It's crazy to see people defending this garbage. Meanwhile US regionals are giving sign-on bonuses paid out over time, longevity matches and and structured flow programs to keep their employees.
It's crazy to see people defending this garbage. Meanwhile US regionals are giving sign-on bonuses paid out over time, longevity matches and and structured flow programs to keep their employees.
I was saying the 100K salary was a reasonable, while the 55K was not. I said nothing about the reasonableness or otherwise of the bonding agreement.
The $100K number, I had gleaned from the bonding agreement which someone had attached. (14 weeks being $28K in salary). Mind you if someone needed 14 weeks to go from ab initio to F/O checked to line, Either the scheduling of training was mismanaged by the employer or the candidate was a moron.
My earlier post indicated how shocked I was at the $55K number, which if compared to a menial 40 hour a week job was equivalent to $26 an hour. That is not a living wage.
Aviation is the only industry that on the surface eats its own young. However, like most things there are two sides to a coin. I recently retired (again) from an operator that employed a dozen ex Virgin pilots. They all seemed nice blokes and I was involved in their training and induction etc. To a man they all seemed grateful for the lifeline, said they would stay and were happy. Fast forward 12 months, all went back to Virgin. Cost the company at least half a million dollars. So guess what? The company now bonds people. Pilots are once again their own worst enemies. It is a vicious circle that could be broken if pilots showed a bit of loyalty. At least give a couple of years to cover costs.
Anyone who couldn't see that covid would end and things would return to 'normal' is a cretin, kind of like the type of cretin who would invest in uber eats thinking that that **** would last forever.
They could have employed and typed pilots that would have stayed with them for a few years, but they were obviously dazzled by the big boys coming back to GA to grace them with their presence.
Last edited by tossbag; 28th Jun 2023 at 11:26.
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It appears that the operator mentioned here looking after their pilots with a 100K bond and a bunnings wage have teamed up with Inbound Aviation to offer the same identical "cadetship" Sharp Airlines offers.
Get your 200k+ ready to buy a right seat in a jet stream.
https://www.australianflying.com.au/...ilot-cadetship
Get your 200k+ ready to buy a right seat in a jet stream.
https://www.australianflying.com.au/...ilot-cadetship
The only time a $100k+ bond would be reasonable is if they trained you from scratch, and paid for it all. Anything else is attaching a leash to you for no reason other than they can't be bothered to offer competitive salaries and want to trap pilots into servitude. Stay far away, there are so many better options out there. Remember that fixing yourself in one job for years might mean you miss the better seats while the music is playing, don't play their game while its in your favor...
If you are an instructor tell your students to avoid these people and so on. The end result is that they offer proper remuneration. Look at the mining industry, they cry so much that they need cheap international labor, when they cant get it they pay big bucks and offer FiFO and still make millions...
If you are an instructor tell your students to avoid these people and so on. The end result is that they offer proper remuneration. Look at the mining industry, they cry so much that they need cheap international labor, when they cant get it they pay big bucks and offer FiFO and still make millions...
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Update: I had a friend of a friend reach out to me. They are currently flying for the company. I was told everyone there has been told not to comment on this forum or face the consequences. I was also advised the details here are accurate in terms of pay and bond with approximately 90% pilot turn over in the past 12 months. Players choice but I believe I've dodged a huge bullet here. Thanks again to everyone who provided me with solid advice 👏