Hand, or rope, starting your aircraft
Thread Starter
Hand, or rope, starting your aircraft
It seems the previous thread that included some detail on hand or rope starting aircraft was deleted?
Admittedly it deviated from it's original intent, however the content was interesting, so I've found my manual on the DC-3 rope start procedure and scanned a copy of that here for anyone that may find it useful. My recollection is that the C-47 I flew was in the Pacific for WW2 and that there was some specific additional information on rope starting. Unfortunately I wasn't able to find that in the brief time I spent looking, if I do I'll update - otherwise if you've flown VH-CAN you may recall what I'm talking about...?
I also found a photo of some real-life practice rope-starting, source is DC3 Southern Skies Pioneer, Brian Lockstone and Paul Harrison, Random House, 2000. megan had a good photo too, although in that case I think they'd wrapped the rope around the prop boss:
Admittedly it deviated from it's original intent, however the content was interesting, so I've found my manual on the DC-3 rope start procedure and scanned a copy of that here for anyone that may find it useful. My recollection is that the C-47 I flew was in the Pacific for WW2 and that there was some specific additional information on rope starting. Unfortunately I wasn't able to find that in the brief time I spent looking, if I do I'll update - otherwise if you've flown VH-CAN you may recall what I'm talking about...?
I also found a photo of some real-life practice rope-starting, source is DC3 Southern Skies Pioneer, Brian Lockstone and Paul Harrison, Random House, 2000. megan had a good photo too, although in that case I think they'd wrapped the rope around the prop boss:
Thanks for that! It was a similar sketch that I referred to in the last thread that seems to have gone walkabout.
I am still sceptical that it would always work. My recollection of starting those buggers involved a fair amount of cranking, hitting spark boosters and tickling primer switches. I suppose enough persistance and a bit of luck could eventually crack it. Never tried it or witnessed it.
An alternative method suggested of wrapping a rope around the prop dome then pulling with a vehicle would impose enormous stresses, so that sounds like something you’d only do to in desperation to escape someone shooting at you.
Some of the Pommy Dakotas retained their original wartime inertia starters. These were either electrically or hand cranked to spin up a flywheel then a clutch was engaged, though I only ever used the electric system.
I am still sceptical that it would always work. My recollection of starting those buggers involved a fair amount of cranking, hitting spark boosters and tickling primer switches. I suppose enough persistance and a bit of luck could eventually crack it. Never tried it or witnessed it.
An alternative method suggested of wrapping a rope around the prop dome then pulling with a vehicle would impose enormous stresses, so that sounds like something you’d only do to in desperation to escape someone shooting at you.
Some of the Pommy Dakotas retained their original wartime inertia starters. These were either electrically or hand cranked to spin up a flywheel then a clutch was engaged, though I only ever used the electric system.
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 26th May 2023 at 22:04. Reason: Minor details added for clarity
FP, the illustration and procedural text you posted is the exact word for word copy of what was posted previously, even down to the serial number and issue date. Pity the site where we got the info from didn't attribute its source, New Zealand National Airways Corporation.
As did some Oz variants, can't recall if they were Pratt or Wright variants, foggy memory suggests Guinea Airways in South Oz..
Some of the Pommy Dakotas retained their original wartime inertia starters
In addition, the licence-built Lisunov variants of the DC-3 had a fitting for a Hucks starter on the propeller boss.
https://pickledwings.files.wordpress...2/img_0715.jpg
https://pickledwings.files.wordpress...2/img_0715.jpg
Yes. I had seen photos of rope starting DC-3 / C47; luckily there were plenty of staff on hand and presumably an appropriate sling.
It was a post in a different thread (which, peculiarly, has since vanished) which stated they had rope started a fuel injected Islander in the highlands of PNG which particularly intrigued me.
Can someone explain how to rope start a BN-2 with a two bladed prop and a spinner. There’s obviously some neat trick which I’m missing.
It was a post in a different thread (which, peculiarly, has since vanished) which stated they had rope started a fuel injected Islander in the highlands of PNG which particularly intrigued me.
Can someone explain how to rope start a BN-2 with a two bladed prop and a spinner. There’s obviously some neat trick which I’m missing.
Last edited by lucille; 27th May 2023 at 08:12.
Great thread, Megsie. Thanks for the link. Halcyon days of aviation, when flying was fun and admitting to knowing the rules was sneered at.
Old farts like us were lucky to have experienced both the dodgy, the “innovative” and imaginative little stunts of the era. There were some characters who preceded us who are now in that final holding pattern.
Old farts like us were lucky to have experienced both the dodgy, the “innovative” and imaginative little stunts of the era. There were some characters who preceded us who are now in that final holding pattern.
The following 2 users liked this post by lucille:
The following 3 users liked this post by mustafagander:
Thanks for that! It was a similar sketch that I referred to in the last thread that seems to have gone walkabout.
I am still sceptical that it would always work. My recollection of starting those buggers involved a fair amount of cranking, hitting spark boosters and tickling primer switches. I suppose enough persistance and a bit of luck could eventually crack it. Never tried it or witnessed it.
An alternative method suggested of wrapping a rope around the prop dome then pulling with a vehicle would impose enormous stresses, so that sounds like something you’d only do to in desperation to escape someone shooting at you.
Some of the Pommy Dakotas retained their original wartime inertia starters. These were either electrically or hand cranked to spin up a flywheel then a clutch was engaged, though I only ever used the electric system.
I am still sceptical that it would always work. My recollection of starting those buggers involved a fair amount of cranking, hitting spark boosters and tickling primer switches. I suppose enough persistance and a bit of luck could eventually crack it. Never tried it or witnessed it.
An alternative method suggested of wrapping a rope around the prop dome then pulling with a vehicle would impose enormous stresses, so that sounds like something you’d only do to in desperation to escape someone shooting at you.
Some of the Pommy Dakotas retained their original wartime inertia starters. These were either electrically or hand cranked to spin up a flywheel then a clutch was engaged, though I only ever used the electric system.
Unless you have had to use three switches, starter, vibrator and prime to start an engine you have missed all the fun. Now was that 15 blades or 8? : )
The following 2 users liked this post by donpizmeov:
15 on the Pratt, 9 on the Wright…I think, memory is dim now.
The following users liked this post:
Thread Starter
FP, the illustration and procedural text you posted is the exact word for word copy of what was posted previously, even down to the serial number and issue date. Pity the site where we got the info from didn't attribute its source, New Zealand National Airways Corporation...
Thanks for posting that other link, I am interested in the efficacy and advisability of rope starting from the prop boss/spinner as described in the Land Rover scene. As I see it having a sock on the prop tip is reasonable (and would appear to be an approved SOP in some cases), and you'd expect it to fly off and out of the way if/when the engine started (if it hadn't already), however I see at least three issues with the boss rope:
(1) unless you're very careful and get the rope exactly orthogonal to the boss (and have a very straight boss) it will either pull off, or become entangled with the blades
(2) if you're unlucky the rope could become entangled with the blades if the engine started and said rope wasn't out of the way in time, oh la la!
(3) while it's been some time since I worked on a DC3 I don't remember the boss being all that strong, it seems to me that miss-application of force on the rope could damage it quite easily? Mach E Avelli clearly has similar thoughts (and yes, I agree they could be a chore to get going at times!).
Thus It'd be good to hear from someone that's actually done a boss rope start, if they're still here to tell the tale...
FP.
Thread Starter
I'm looking at our manual now, it says 14 blades for cold start, and 9 for hot (R1830), and of course we needed to WOBBLE, none of this flash electric pump stuff 
Here is the relevant NAC process from '68:
Here is the relevant NAC process from '68:
The following 2 users liked this post by First_Principal:
Yes. I had seen photos of rope starting DC-3 / C47; luckily there were plenty of staff on hand and presumably an appropriate sling.
It was a post in a different thread (which, peculiarly, has since vanished) which stated they had rope started a fuel injected Islander in the highlands of PNG which particularly intrigued me.
Can someone explain how to rope start a BN-2 with a two bladed prop and a spinner. There’s obviously some neat trick which I’m missing.
It was a post in a different thread (which, peculiarly, has since vanished) which stated they had rope started a fuel injected Islander in the highlands of PNG which particularly intrigued me.
Can someone explain how to rope start a BN-2 with a two bladed prop and a spinner. There’s obviously some neat trick which I’m missing.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking forward to returning to Japan soon but in the meantime continuing the never ending search for a bad bottle of Red!
Age: 69
Posts: 2,970
Received 96 Likes
on
55 Posts
I hand started a 260HP Islander one time when the starter went U/S and I was on the other side of the Owen Stanleys late on a Friday afternoon.
AY taught me the procedure in case it was ever needed.
Had to get back to the Club Dero for the Friday night BBQ.
AY taught me the procedure in case it was ever needed.
Had to get back to the Club Dero for the Friday night BBQ.
Started a DC3 at Bairnsdale by hand sometime in 1970. It was a hot start and the starter motor failed i.e.when selected nothing happened!.
The Captain was Mayne McKern, the SRC for JetAir, and he had the answer in his head despite no starter rope being carried. Can't remember which acft it was but they were all R1830 engined.
Co-opted several of the male passengers and after carefully priming the engine, and turning it through a number of blades, about 3 or 4 joined hands with me and with mags on, pulled it through and walked away as the engine started first go!.
All aboard and back to Essendon by just on dark.
Was something to remember!
The Captain was Mayne McKern, the SRC for JetAir, and he had the answer in his head despite no starter rope being carried. Can't remember which acft it was but they were all R1830 engined.
Co-opted several of the male passengers and after carefully priming the engine, and turning it through a number of blades, about 3 or 4 joined hands with me and with mags on, pulled it through and walked away as the engine started first go!.
All aboard and back to Essendon by just on dark.
Was something to remember!
I started an Islander with a rope. Talair, 38 years ago in PNG. Had a dummy run first with the mags off. Wrapped the rope over itself initially and then maybe 4 to six times around the spinner. Test proved the rope came away freely. Had three of us on the rope as best I can remember. Worked well. I think it was my last flight on type with Talair.
Ah ha! Thanks for that. I would have been too afraid to wreck the spinner. Obviously they’re way stronger than I gave them credit for.
First Principal
Mach E Avelli
FP,
VH-MMA is possibly the -3 that you are thinking of? It was General McArthur’s transport in the Pacific for a time.
Stretching the memory a bit, the Flight Manual of Air Norths DC3s (VH-CAN being the other) had the Rope Start instructions, including rope around the prop done that Mach mentions. It also had interesting instructions on how to picket the aircraft in snow and ice. (Fun fact, the Royal Darwin Hospital has external pitched concrete structures around the building to protect it from snow over load. The building was allegedly designed for Alaska).
IIRC, Hank used the Rope about the prop dome (man powered, not car powered) to get out of Maningrida back in the day when overnighting there was considered on par with being shot at.
My recollection is that the C-47 I flew was in the Pacific for WW2 and that there was some specific additional information on rope starting. Unfortunately I wasn't able to find that in the brief time I spent looking, if I do I'll update - otherwise if you've flown VH-CAN you may recall what I'm talking about...?
An alternative method suggested of wrapping a rope around the prop dome then pulling with a vehicle would impose enormous stresses, so that sounds like something you’d only do to in desperation to escape someone shooting at you.
VH-MMA is possibly the -3 that you are thinking of? It was General McArthur’s transport in the Pacific for a time.
Stretching the memory a bit, the Flight Manual of Air Norths DC3s (VH-CAN being the other) had the Rope Start instructions, including rope around the prop done that Mach mentions. It also had interesting instructions on how to picket the aircraft in snow and ice. (Fun fact, the Royal Darwin Hospital has external pitched concrete structures around the building to protect it from snow over load. The building was allegedly designed for Alaska).
IIRC, Hank used the Rope about the prop dome (man powered, not car powered) to get out of Maningrida back in the day when overnighting there was considered on par with being shot at.