G/A Light Aircraft ditches off Leighton Beach, WA
I continue to be concerned about the lack of corporate integrity of ATSB (and CASA and Airservices and…)
"Liking" something doesn't necessarily imply that I agree with it.
You didn’t. And I didn’t say you did. I said you were implicitly asserting that “the tanks were bone dry on both sides”, when you ‘liked’ a post which asserted: “WOTS is the tanks were bone dry on both sides”.
What exactly did you mean by your ‘like’?
What exactly did you mean by your ‘like’?
One of the many reasons for the lack of faith in ATSB’s integrity is the leaks. I get it that your mate can’t resist leaking and you can’t resist leveraging off those leaks, Squawk, but remember: It comes at a cost.
My “like” on the post was in relation to the amusement value of the post, I felt it was witty.
I’ll have to be careful from now on on here and Facebook as if I like something it’s implied that I agree with the post!
The following users liked this post:
Generally that's what liking something means, you looked at it, found it agreeable or amusing and liked it. Unfortunately you are also endorsing whatever message the OP is sending regardless of intent, and you are doing it so publicly, that's how social media works.
As for 'Bone dry' tanks, it would be interesting who made that assertion, as the tanks would either have still contained unusable fuel or seawater after being dragged out of the drink, neither would have the tanks dry. Most likely Seawater would have made its way in as it was submerged, displacing some fuel from the tanks.
As for 'Bone dry' tanks, it would be interesting who made that assertion, as the tanks would either have still contained unusable fuel or seawater after being dragged out of the drink, neither would have the tanks dry. Most likely Seawater would have made its way in as it was submerged, displacing some fuel from the tanks.
The following 2 users liked this post by 43Inches:
People have lost their jobs by “liking” the wrong post on social media. I think it’s a general assumption that if you like a post you generally agree with it. That’s what I thought when I saw your like and I suppose that’s what LB thought.
Last edited by Cloudee; 1st May 2023 at 13:05.
It’s Pprune’s fault, they need a laughing emojee.
For the record here for the baby boomers thru to the Gen-z’s, liking a post does not necessarily mean that you agree with it. If you disagree, we will have to agree to disagree.
I know a lot about this topic. I had a mentally deranged individual (in my opinion) tell my employer my pprune username (and the old one that had a permission problem that they couldn’t fix) to look for all the anti-government comments I was making and where I was unstable and abusing people etc etc. Due to this, a Police detective spent 8 weeks going through the many thousands of posts over 15 years or more and do you know what they found…? absolutely nothing. I think I got 12 weeks taxpayer funded leave out of that thanks very much you know who you are :-)
The following users liked this post:
The following 5 users liked this post by Capn Bloggs:
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking forward to returning to Japan soon but in the meantime continuing the never ending search for a bad bottle of Red!
Age: 69
Posts: 2,971
Received 97 Likes
on
56 Posts
I like Bloggsie's post just 'cos I think it's funny!
Merely a clarification, don'tcha know....
Merely a clarification, don'tcha know....
The following 2 users liked this post by Pinky the pilot:
The following 2 users liked this post by First_Principal:
Thread Starter
Is that like.....JEEEEEEZ........like..??............
Ullo Mr Pinky....
And, like, re above like.... in my 'best' John Wayne accent like......'Ya wanna be careful how ya spell that, ..Pilgrim...like.....
Ullo Mr Pinky....
And, like, re above like.... in my 'best' John Wayne accent like......'Ya wanna be careful how ya spell that, ..Pilgrim...like.....
Last edited by Ex FSO GRIFFO; 2nd May 2023 at 03:08.
The following 2 users liked this post by Ex FSO GRIFFO:
Michelle has released a podcast which gives some more detail into the accident.
https://www.flighttrainingaustralia....r-arrow-vh-fey
https://www.flighttrainingaustralia....r-arrow-vh-fey
The following users liked this post:
Appreciate the frank report by the pilot, thank you Michelle, quite useful to many of us I expect.
While I understand the tanks weren't swapped (and why) I was left wondering if the pump was switched on and/or what the fuel pressure gauge showed. Not being critical, just that they weren't specifically mentioned and I'm curious about this from a technical perspective.
Interesting comment re the RHS tank pickup and missing filter - it's been a long time since I looked inside one of them, anyone know if that's visible through the filler? Could be a useful additional check if so.
FP.
The following users liked this post:
Thanks for the podcast link. 58 minutes. An interesting discussion well worth listening to.
Listening all the way through shows an practical approach by the pilot to aviation, and she discusses things that may have caused the incident, her mindset and thought processes during the incident, things in retrospect she may have done different, and where to from here.
To summarise:
Insurance has paid out. Michelle discusses what aircraft she may be looking at as a replacement, and why.
Well worth listening to, and may clarify some of the discussion in this thread, which is a good example of where we can learn by discussion, the wild misinformed guesses clarified by further facts emerging, observing what happened, and what we can do different (and the same) if confronted by this situation. The stuff that makes PPRuNe what it is, a valuable resource where we can learn by sharing experiences.
The final report from ATSB will be worth reading too..
Listening all the way through shows an practical approach by the pilot to aviation, and she discusses things that may have caused the incident, her mindset and thought processes during the incident, things in retrospect she may have done different, and where to from here.
To summarise:
- Fuel issues and what she did seems to be the main cause here. Possible contamination, fuel quality, starvation are all discussed. The missing filter and non-standard fuel pickup may have been contributory as well.
- Importance of following checklists, and learning in a different aircraft to which you normally fly.
- Complacency.
- Basic diligence.
- 20% luck, 80% pilot training and competence.
- Continuous ongoing development and training. Learning never stops.
- Missed opportunity by ATSB to collect conclusive evidence by being tardy to start investigation.
- FCMIT
Insurance has paid out. Michelle discusses what aircraft she may be looking at as a replacement, and why.
Well worth listening to, and may clarify some of the discussion in this thread, which is a good example of where we can learn by discussion, the wild misinformed guesses clarified by further facts emerging, observing what happened, and what we can do different (and the same) if confronted by this situation. The stuff that makes PPRuNe what it is, a valuable resource where we can learn by sharing experiences.
The final report from ATSB will be worth reading too..
Last edited by Thirsty; 4th Jul 2023 at 13:51.
The following 3 users liked this post by Thirsty:
I'll remain in suspense until it is published. Certainly not going to spend 58 minutes listening to a podcast in the hope of learning why the engine stopped. I would read a one page summary if there was one.
The fuel pickups should be fitted with a very coarse wire screen:
-46 72091-00 W STRAINER - Fuel tank finger
https://tinyurl.com/v5vsdk37
No, you can't see the strainers from the filler neck without a mirror or scope. I have never seen mine in 20 years of ownership but I will look next time the tanks are low.
The fuel pickups should be fitted with a very coarse wire screen:
-46 72091-00 W STRAINER - Fuel tank finger
https://tinyurl.com/v5vsdk37
No, you can't see the strainers from the filler neck without a mirror or scope. I have never seen mine in 20 years of ownership but I will look next time the tanks are low.
Thirsty did a fair job of their summary I thought, and it's less than one page 
I suppose that, without having listened to the audio, some of that summary might be fairly cryptic. To put it in one sentence then; noted [unusual] water in fuel at start of flight, drained, engine died long way into flight, carb heat+mix rich, engine ok, engine died again, low altitude, focus on landing, did not swap tanks, relatively gentle and successful water landing, frank retrospective re training, what could/should have done, initial findings of ATSB of non-standard fuel pickup and missing filter, why engine died may be blockage or could be nil fuel in RHS tank (not according to gauge).
While Thirsty's report and the long sentence above may cover the salient points I think the discussion is worthwhile listening to, and even the most grizzled veteran pilot could probably get something from it. Certainly I did, and I'm still thinking about it now.
Otherwise thanks for the link to the filters, I used to work on them a bit and that brings back hazy memories. My feeling is that we didn't inspect them terribly regularly so yes, could well be worth checking when the opportunity arises.
FP.
I suppose that, without having listened to the audio, some of that summary might be fairly cryptic. To put it in one sentence then; noted [unusual] water in fuel at start of flight, drained, engine died long way into flight, carb heat+mix rich, engine ok, engine died again, low altitude, focus on landing, did not swap tanks, relatively gentle and successful water landing, frank retrospective re training, what could/should have done, initial findings of ATSB of non-standard fuel pickup and missing filter, why engine died may be blockage or could be nil fuel in RHS tank (not according to gauge).
While Thirsty's report and the long sentence above may cover the salient points I think the discussion is worthwhile listening to, and even the most grizzled veteran pilot could probably get something from it. Certainly I did, and I'm still thinking about it now.
Otherwise thanks for the link to the filters, I used to work on them a bit and that brings back hazy memories. My feeling is that we didn't inspect them terribly regularly so yes, could well be worth checking when the opportunity arises.
FP.
The following users liked this post:
Thanks for the headsup! ATSB investigation link here.
While I understand the tanks weren't swapped (and why) I was left wondering if the pump was switched on and/or what the fuel pressure gauge showed. Not being critical, just that they weren't specifically mentioned and I'm curious about this from a technical perspective.
FP.
While I understand the tanks weren't swapped (and why) I was left wondering if the pump was switched on and/or what the fuel pressure gauge showed. Not being critical, just that they weren't specifically mentioned and I'm curious about this from a technical perspective.
FP.
I thought the F in FCMIT is "fuel most full". practically it should be Fuel Pump+switch fuel tank (unless you are 100% sure that the other tank has been bled dry?).
i have practically zero time in a PA-28. I prefer flying high wing so we don't have to bother about switching fuel tanks tbh (my instructor keeps going on about him liking the Piper better - but i dont like them because of single door and this switching tank stuff (and doesnt feel convenient to reach that knob...))