G/A Light Aircraft ditches off Leighton Beach, WA
I thought the whole idea of ditching was to stall it on… similar to a short field landing. Minimise the groundspeed at touchdown.
The underwater video shows the flaps up. It certainly looked like a fast touchdown, but no injuries on this occasion.
The underwater video shows the flaps up. It certainly looked like a fast touchdown, but no injuries on this occasion.
I've seen other vids of ditching pipers and mostly they 'splat' onto the water stopping where they hit. This ditching was very good, light touch so it skiid to a stop rather than flip.
The following 3 users liked this post by 43Inches:
As for cause, they said they had full fuel at the start.
I remember some years back a twin forced landing into a cane paddock just short of CNS. Female pilot praised for textbook landing, front page of cairns post etc etc.. 8 months later page 10 - investigation revealed she had run out of petrol ........
But would full fuel cover the flight from where she took off to Jandakot?
I remember some years back a twin forced landing into a cane paddock just short of CNS. Female pilot praised for textbook landing, front page of cairns post etc etc.. 8 months later page 10 - investigation revealed she had run out of petrol ........
I remember some years back a twin forced landing into a cane paddock just short of CNS. Female pilot praised for textbook landing, front page of cairns post etc etc.. 8 months later page 10 - investigation revealed she had run out of petrol ........
Last edited by Thirsty; 21st Apr 2023 at 18:42. Reason: BP Avgas?
To those who question the lack of flaps for landing, consider:
At 1500ft if your only engine quits in a.typical draggy old airframe, you have about 90 seconds to set up the landing. Adding flap too early will reduce that time. On some types flap requires considerable nose down pitch to maintain safe speed - not desirable.
In that 90 seconds you will probably try a quick troubleshoot first - carb heat, boost pumps etc. Then pick the landing area, then put out a mayday call.
Final memory actions prior to impact usually include switching off all electrics.
On many of these Pipers the flaps are electrically powered.
The lady dun gooood.
Agree with this.
To those who question the lack of flaps for landing, consider:
At 1500ft if your only engine quits in a.typical draggy old airframe, you have about 90 seconds to set up the landing. Adding flap too early will reduce that time. On some types flap requires considerable nose down pitch to maintain safe speed - not desirable.
In that 90 seconds you will probably try a quick troubleshoot first - carb heat, boost pumps etc. Then pick the landing area, then put out a mayday call.
Final memory actions prior to impact usually include switching off all electrics.
On many of these Pipers the flaps are electrically powered.
The lady dun gooood.
To those who question the lack of flaps for landing, consider:
At 1500ft if your only engine quits in a.typical draggy old airframe, you have about 90 seconds to set up the landing. Adding flap too early will reduce that time. On some types flap requires considerable nose down pitch to maintain safe speed - not desirable.
In that 90 seconds you will probably try a quick troubleshoot first - carb heat, boost pumps etc. Then pick the landing area, then put out a mayday call.
Final memory actions prior to impact usually include switching off all electrics.
On many of these Pipers the flaps are electrically powered.
The lady dun gooood.
Someone doesn’t know their Pipers very well………
A Cherokee with electric flaps? That’d be a first.
The following 2 users liked this post by Clare Prop:
As she has done a fait bit of media now I feel I can say a bit more about this.
For all the people with opinions about ditching, I was Michelle's CPL instructor, I learned to fly on an island where there was a lot of over water flying and we had ditching drlls drummed into us over and over. I was able to pass that knowledge on to her and she put it into action and it worked.
The main thing is to maintain control, for that you need airspeed, and to land as flat as you can along the swell and get the door open before you reach the water. She did exactly that and it worked. Flaps not relevant.
She owned that aeroplane, knew it inside out and did her hour building in it including adventures into remote areas.. She keeps meticulous fuel logs. So what happened? Maybe we'll never know, but it's been disappointing to see how many on social media have had said that being female is a contributing factor in "running out of fuel", I would dare any of them to say it to her face! Or mine!
Meanwhile here is an interesting article on ditching by Paul Bertorelli
EQUIPPED TO SURVIVE (tm) - Ditching Myths Torpedoed!
For all the people with opinions about ditching, I was Michelle's CPL instructor, I learned to fly on an island where there was a lot of over water flying and we had ditching drlls drummed into us over and over. I was able to pass that knowledge on to her and she put it into action and it worked.
The main thing is to maintain control, for that you need airspeed, and to land as flat as you can along the swell and get the door open before you reach the water. She did exactly that and it worked. Flaps not relevant.
She owned that aeroplane, knew it inside out and did her hour building in it including adventures into remote areas.. She keeps meticulous fuel logs. So what happened? Maybe we'll never know, but it's been disappointing to see how many on social media have had said that being female is a contributing factor in "running out of fuel", I would dare any of them to say it to her face! Or mine!
Meanwhile here is an interesting article on ditching by Paul Bertorelli
EQUIPPED TO SURVIVE (tm) - Ditching Myths Torpedoed!
The following 16 users liked this post by Clare Prop:
My (albeit brief) review of ostensibly authoritative guidance material indicates that FULL flaps are NOT recommended when ditching in a low wing aircraft, unless the POH/AFM specifically says full flaps should be used. The consensus seems to be “no more than intermediate flaps” (unless the POH/AFM etc).
(Well done the PIC and well done Clare Prop!)
(Well done the PIC and well done Clare Prop!)
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To all who flamed me, thanks for setting me straight - I really thought later model Piper singles had regressed to electric flaps. Pleased to now know they didn’t
However, in my defence, I did not categorically state that this particular Piper had electric flaps (RTFT) so while I could go back & edit out my ‘mistake’, I won’t, because you/we like to prove others wrong sometimes.
However, in my defence, I did not categorically state that this particular Piper had electric flaps (RTFT) so while I could go back & edit out my ‘mistake’, I won’t, because you/we like to prove others wrong sometimes.
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 22nd Apr 2023 at 00:59. Reason: Punctuation
(Slight thread drift: You’re flying a retrac single with a three-bladed prop. You have an engine failure and are forced to ditch, but have a few minutes to prepare after the HSM. Which is safer when you hit the water: (1) Prop windmilling. (2) Prop stopped with one blade pointing straight up. (3) Prop stopped with one blade pointing straight down. Assume you can engage the starter to rotate the prop if you need to. I’d opt for 2 if I had the time and choice.)
If the prop is windmilling you have no control over where it might stop. In this case it stopped due to the reduced airspeed due to the raised nose as she flared and the rapid deceleration as they touched the water. If the prop has stopped then the engine has seized or your crankshaft has broken. So starter is irrelevant.
As I have advised her and all my other students, once you are committed to a forced landing the aeroplane belongs to the insurance company. No point trying to save a prop. I'm not sure in her case if it was developing any power, but I tell people to shut the engine down as a restart can increase the liklihood of a loss of control, we actually demonstrate this in stall and PFL training by applying full power from idle to an aircraft with full flap and trimmed for the glide.
As I have advised her and all my other students, once you are committed to a forced landing the aeroplane belongs to the insurance company. No point trying to save a prop. I'm not sure in her case if it was developing any power, but I tell people to shut the engine down as a restart can increase the liklihood of a loss of control, we actually demonstrate this in stall and PFL training by applying full power from idle to an aircraft with full flap and trimmed for the glide.
I don’t want to start an argument with you, Clare, as you’re vastly more experienced than I am. But you can stop a windmilling prop in the air (if you have time). Presumably you’ve been through an ‘air start’ exercise many times, which exercise involves stopping the prop from windmilling first? And my scenario was about reducing the probabilities of the aircraft flipping on ditching, not about ‘saving the prop’.
Last edited by Lead Balloon; 22nd Apr 2023 at 01:37.
The Piper Archer is a single engine aeroplane with a fixed pitch propeller...
Not quite the same as doing feathering drills in a twin.
Even if there was a variable pitch prop in a single in the event of a loss of oil pressure a spring will take it to full fine pitch.
So no,I haven't practised "air starts" in a single engine fixed pitch aircraft so please share your experience.
Not quite the same as doing feathering drills in a twin.
Even if there was a variable pitch prop in a single in the event of a loss of oil pressure a spring will take it to full fine pitch.
So no,I haven't practised "air starts" in a single engine fixed pitch aircraft so please share your experience.
Last edited by Clare Prop; 22nd Apr 2023 at 03:09.