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Appin crash Boxing Day

Old 28th Dec 2022, 10:03
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ď..Mr Mitchell said 2022 had been one of the worst years on record for light plane fatalities, with 23 deadly crashes across Australia..Ē
Sadly it might be why these latest events are not gathering much news. So many crashes this year it's no longer sensational to report on another small plane accident, other than an occurrence type filler...
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Old 28th Dec 2022, 10:07
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I've never seen an auto engine work in an aircraft EVER, stupid ******* idea.
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Old 28th Dec 2022, 10:26
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There was a guy in Melbourne years back trying to fit a Lexus engine into a Comanche. Not sure how that panned out.

Numerous Subaruís in Gyros and random aircraft such as the Foxcon Terrier. The Cobra Arrow was another that didnít go so well too with a Subaru. Moorabbin housed a Glastar with Subaru engine also.

The latest trend is fitting used Kawasaki snow-mobile engines that rev to 8,000-9,000 rpm. They have a nice looking gearbox to achieve flight.

I love my stock 272hp 2.4L Subaru engine, however itís fitted in my WRX and thatís where it should stay!





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Old 28th Dec 2022, 11:19
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Originally Posted by Squawk7700
There was a guy in Melbourne years back trying to fit a Lexus engine into a Comanche. Not sure how that panned out.
Yes, I remember that guy! He had a test cell on the back of his trailer too. I'm curious about how he went too???

But then there was also 3 Mooney M20's that had Porsche engines in them. I'm unsure what happened to those as well?
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Old 28th Dec 2022, 17:32
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Plenty of perfectly good homebuilts out there using air cooled VW and Corvair engines, but I have also seen some shockers, usually when bigger and more powerful auto engines are involved. I have seen a Lexus V8 used successfully in an aeroplane, but I'm not sure whether the supposed benefits would make up for all the extra weight and complexity. I think those conversions tend to be more of the 'because I can' variety.
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Old 28th Dec 2022, 19:00
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Continuing the slight thread drift. I had a 300 horsepower car which chewed about 9 litres an hour. What is it about aero engines such as the lycomings that produce 180hp but chew 32 litres per hour. What is the engineering difference that causes this, and is that engineering difference what makes you guys think car engines should not be in aeroplanes ?

I know its thread drift but, if the Appin accident comes down to the donk, if i buy an aircraft in the future, engine choice will matter.
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Old 28th Dec 2022, 19:40
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Hourly fuel consumption is determined largely by the amount of horsepower being used. I read somewhere, many moons ago, that a Holden Commodore, maintaining 100Km/hr, is using about 16HP. This is about 10% of the available engine power.
A typical air cooled aero engine is using about 70% of rated sea level engine power at normal cruise.
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Old 28th Dec 2022, 19:58
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Originally Posted by 43Inches
Sadly it might be why these latest events are not gathering much news. So many crashes this year it's no longer sensational to report on another small plane accident, other than an occurrence type filler...
The road toll is much higher too. And there are now around 200 Covid deaths a week.

My amateur guess is it's a combination of rusty drivers/flyers and higher levels of risk taking.
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Old 28th Dec 2022, 21:01
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What ever happened to 'the genius' of Tom Wickers ? (as he described himself on his website), just disappeared like so many others..
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Old 28th Dec 2022, 21:59
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So much for the introduction of Part 61 regulations. The accident rate seems to have only increased.
R.
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Old 28th Dec 2022, 22:03
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Originally Posted by mcoates
What ever happened to 'the genius' of Tom Wickers ? (as he described himself on his website), just disappeared like so many others..
Health.

Heís still around. I doubt any of his aircraft still fly, but stranger things have happened.
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Old 28th Dec 2022, 22:59
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Originally Posted by runway16
So much for the introduction of Part 61 regulations. The accident rate seems to have only increased.
R.
The rules are now so convoluted no one cares to follow them, that's if you can even understand or find a relevant line for what you are doing. When you make everything illegal you just get massive disobedience. The roads now are a good example, tight speed limits, fines for everything, but the state is no longer funding enough police to patrol so speeding is rife, crashes increasing, bad driving all over the place. Even the worst drivers get to know where the cameras are, everywhere else you could virtually do 200kph and no one would bat an eyelid. Almost daily on the freeways I get passed by a car moving at such pace it rocks my car, and I'm not driving slow either.
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Old 29th Dec 2022, 02:29
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NTSB Update

https://registry.faa.gov/AircraftInq...NumberTxt=N600

more....

Kathryn's Report: Stoddard-Hamilton Glasair Super II FT, N600: Fatal accident occurred December 26, 2022 near Wedderburn Airstrip, Australia
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Old 29th Dec 2022, 04:06
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Thanks for your input Geoff Thomas, Iím sure nobody realised that an experimental aircraft is not as safe as a 747.

Looks like Kathrynís website is back up and running.
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Old 29th Dec 2022, 11:47
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Here's the difference in numbers between Lycoming and GM LS3 V8, used mostly for towing gliders.

https://www.etug.com.au/

I flew in one of these and it does feel more powerful with sound of a race car.
​​​​​​​The real question is why Lycoming cost $80k vs $10k for V8.
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Old 29th Dec 2022, 11:55
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Originally Posted by Kulwin Park
But then there was also 3 Mooney M20's that had Porsche engines in them. I'm unsure what happened to those as well?
The Mooney Porsche engine was a certified engine with only 41 built during the late 80's and was the first long body Mooney. I believe Porsche ceased their support of the engine some years ago, however prior to this owners had the choice to convert the engine to a Continental IO-550, which also later resulted in the birth of the Mooney Ovation. I know of at least 2 original Porsche Mooneys that live at Essendon.

Last edited by Jenna Talia; 29th Dec 2022 at 12:11.
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Old 29th Dec 2022, 12:14
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The real question is why Lycoming cost $80k vs $10k for V8.
If you mean a Lycoming aircraft engine vs a car engine the answer is quite simply mass production over millions of units vs limited production over a few thousand. Then spreading the cost of development, production and liability both for faults and continued support over those numbers. You order a part for a piper or such it's effectively made for that order, or comes from limited spares stock. You order a part for your car it's shipped from a stock of mass produced parts, it's amazing how expensive or just outright impossible to get certain parts for out of production cars where you have to start fabricating your own stuff.

Most importantly would you be able to operate a commercial passenger flight with a car engine, most likely not.

Is the V8 or Lycoming the more reliable for aircraft use, who really knows, but one is certified and the other is only certified for glider towing.
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Old 29th Dec 2022, 18:48
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FWIW a Chevy(?) V-8 powered glider tug lost power recently in Victoria. It looks rather sad due to damage from the forced landing. Pilot did a fine job and is OK.
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Old 29th Dec 2022, 19:40
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Thanks 43inches
Here is another example, Garmin G5 for certified $5k vs. non-certified aircraft $2.5k
​​​​​The difference is backup battery option and ceritified version has more software restrictions. The same source code with if statements to restrict certified version.
​​​​​At the end, both products were made in Asia for a couple of hundreds $.
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Old 29th Dec 2022, 20:53
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It's not accurate to think that putting a V8 into a glider tug is only going to cost 10k. It's going to cost about the same as a rebuilt LYC/CONTI all up.
The bare V8 is probably close to 10k.
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