Cherokee 6 at Moorabbin

[PiperCameron]

The ATSB final report on the Cherokee 6 EFATO at Moorabbin last year last just been released. Unfortunately it's scarily inconclusive:

https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications...r/ao-2021-024/

[runway16]

Pilot hours? Hours on type?

Missing.

[Squawk7700]

Originally Posted by PiperCameron

Unfortunately it's scarily inconclusive:

That’s because they were unable to work out what happened, however if you read carefully you’ll see mention that the pilot may have pulled back the mixture, which fits perfectly with all other evidence.

I also note this disclaimer:
“Decisions regarding whether to conduct an investigation, and the scope of an investigation, are based on many factors, including the level of safety benefit likely to be obtained from an investigation. For this occurrence, a limited-scope investigation was conducted in order to produce a short investigation report, and allow for greater industry awareness of findings that affect safety and potential learning opportunities.“

[Runaway Gun]

CASA SAFETY MESSAGE

“Maintain glide speed and use no more than a moderate bank angle…”

So, what AOB is best?

[PiperCameron]

Originally Posted by Squawk7700

That’s because they were unable to work out what happened, however if you read carefully you’ll see mention that the pilot may have pulled back the mixture, which fits perfectly with all other evidence.

I also note this disclaimer:
“Decisions regarding whether to conduct an investigation, and the scope of an investigation, are based on many factors, including the level of safety benefit likely to be obtained from an investigation. For this occurrence, a limited-scope investigation was conducted in order to produce a short investigation report, and allow for greater industry awareness of findings that affect safety and potential learning opportunities.“

Yeah.. But overlooking discussion of pilot hours, hours on type and all the usual IMSAFE stuff, and then kinda hinting that the mixture was the only thing they couldn't confirm properly doesn't actually "..allow for greater industry awareness of findings that affect safety and potential learning opportunities." does it??

Talk on the airport's active rumour mill mere hours after the accident had already reached the conclusion that maybe mixture was the issue.. and ISTM that all this report does is confirm inconclusively what we didn't know already, maybe.

I, for one, was hoping for better.

[PiperCameron]

Originally Posted by Runaway Gun

“Maintain glide speed and use no more than a moderate bank angle…”

So, what AOB is best?

Whichever one doesn't require an ATSB investigation soon after.

[Runaway Gun]

The problem is that pilots are scared to use more than about 20 degrees angle of bank - often in normal flight. Then when an emergency happens they freak out.

[Squawk7700]

Originally Posted by PiperCameron

I, for one, was hoping for better.

They don’t know what they don’t know…. They aren’t miracle workers.

[PiperCameron]

Originally Posted by Runaway Gun

The problem is that pilots are scared to use more than about 20 degrees angle of bank - often in normal flight. Then when an emergency happens they freak out.

That's a bit unfair.. I seem to spend at least half my flight hours doing Steep Turns, PFLs and general emergency procedures - but then maybe that's because the crappy weather in Melbourne over recent months means "normal flight" doesn't happen nearly enough.

I got a laugh out of this line on the MEL GENMET yesterday: "Windshear is unlikely as strong winds aloft are expected to be mixing down to the surface". Gee, what wonderful news! it's not just crap up there, but it's crap down here also!! At least the guys/gals at the BOM are good at positive spin.

[Stickshift3000]

Originally Posted by PiperCameron

I got a laugh out of this line on the MEL GENMET yesterday: "Windshear is unlikely as strong winds aloft are expected to be mixing down to the surface". Gee, what wonderful news! it's not just crap up there, but it's crap down here also!! At least the guys/gals at the BOM are good at positive spin.

Windshear was unlikely due to the prevailing wind conditions - potentially useful info for pilots in gusty conditions.

Not sure that this would meet my definition of 'crap' weather; if the headwind is straight down the runway it could be great flying conditions.

Don't stop learning...

[NZFlyingKiwi]

Agreed, a strong steady wind down to the surface usually makes for much easier flying conditions than light winds at the surface with a stronger wind aloft. My local airport is in a valley and it's not uncommon in southeasterly conditions for it to be 35kt up top and nothing at the surface first thing in the morning. Usually accompanied by clear blue skies which has led many a pilot to depart on a seemingly mint day only to find it's bumpy as hell and they come back an hour later to a 25kt crosswind!

[PiperCameron]

Originally Posted by Stickshift3000

Windshear was unlikely due to the prevailing wind conditions - potentially useful info for pilots in gusty conditions.

Not sure that this would meet my definition of 'crap' weather; if the headwind is straight down the runway it could be great flying conditions.

Don't stop learning...

Yeah.. I should have explained that YMMB (where I fly from) is roughly in the center of the Melbourne Basin and directly south of the city, so although the headwind might be (approximately) down the runway, the aforesaid forecast is really saying that it's turbulent up top and will be turbulent (and gusty) at ground level.

I'm not a fan of flying in Moderate turbulence although I did take a flying friend up in it anyway, because (a) it was otherwise CAVOK and (b) the best it was likely to be for a week or so and (c) it was good practice - although I draw the line at Severe turbulence..

[Capt Fathom]

Originally Posted by PiperCameron

although I draw the line at Severe turbulence..

Jeez, that’s good to hear!