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Australian ATPL flight test

Old 16th Mar 2022, 23:42
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Australian ATPL flight test

I am looking to do an ATPL flight test but having trouble finding some one to do it.

I have seen see that flight options in Queensland have a course and fight test in the citation mustang sim, but it seem to be design around pilots have no multi crew experience and i would need to find someone else to do it with. I have about 500 hours co pilot of the dash100 I think an introduction to multi crew operations for several days is not needed.

Is there anyway to get around 61.700 (3)b or any part 142 operators with approval to do the training.

any insight from anyone that has had a similar situation would be muchly appreciated.

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Old 17th Mar 2022, 00:30
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You don't 'get around' any Australian legislation (unless you're a special case). In fact CASA will make up legislation associated with a clause you may be looking at or have their own special one person interpretation, depending on who you get of course.

As far as I'm aware the mob in Queensland are the only ones doing the ATPL flight test at this point in time??
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 00:31
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I know a guy. DM me.
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 02:48
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Does Ansett not offer it?
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 04:08
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https://www.ansettaviationtraining.com/training , website says they do it.
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 06:33
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion
Is there a reason you want it? Get a job and make the airline pay for it for you,
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 09:29
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Oh the days when you just had to present a forged logbook and fake night hours, to get an ATPL are long gone lol.
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Old 17th Mar 2022, 13:56
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I had about 1,000 hours of multi crew co-pilot time when I did the Flight Options MCC and ATPL course. I found the time spent doing the MCC was exceptionally valuable as preparation for the ATPL flight test - for me the ATPL component was as intense if not more so than ATPL flight planning. Admittedly I'd never been in a sim, never flown a glass aircraft, had a few grey hairs, and had extremely little exposure to autopilots at that point. I was fortunate to have a good sim buddy - that certainly helped too.

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Old 18th Mar 2022, 00:19
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I have contacted them but they do not have a testing officer on the DCH 8 and they are unable to do the training as that legislation says.
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Old 18th Mar 2022, 00:27
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Originally Posted by werbil
I had about 1,000 hours of multi crew co-pilot time when I did the Flight Options MCC and ATPL course. I found the time spent doing the MCC was exceptionally valuable as preparation for the ATPL flight test - for me the ATPL component was as intense if not more so than ATPL flight planning. Admittedly I'd never been in a sim, never flown a glass aircraft, had a few grey hairs, and had extremely little exposure to autopilots at that point. I was fortunate to have a good sim buddy - that certainly helped too.
I'm sure its a great course, but for the price of it, as well as 2 weeks off work, travel accommodation, plus needing a second crew member I dont believe its worth it.
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Old 18th Mar 2022, 08:56
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Originally Posted by mogga04
I'm sure its a great course, but for the price of it, as well as 2 weeks off work, travel accommodation, plus needing a second crew member I dont believe its worth it.
My employer clearly thought it was well worth the expense for the two of us.
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Old 18th Mar 2022, 10:02
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Originally Posted by mogga04
I dont believe its worth it.
Depends on what you are trying to achieve I guess.
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Old 19th Mar 2022, 03:35
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So what youíre saying is that you donít want to learn anything and are merely after someone to just tick a box for you because youíre an expert?
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Old 19th Mar 2022, 05:01
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So what you’re saying is that you don’t want to learn anything and are merely after someone to just tick a box for you because you’re an expert?
Not having a crack at you, but what I believe he/she is saying is that by the time costs are factored in, it could end up a two week/20k exercise. Personally I don't think it's worth it either. As in most things aviation in Australia it's probably double or triple the cost of other jurisdictions and double or triply complicated for no justifiable reason.
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Old 19th Mar 2022, 05:13
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Originally Posted by morno
So what youíre saying is that you donít want to learn anything and are merely after someone to just tick a box for you because youíre an expert?


Very insightful and mature way to look at it. No I'm am not saying that. What I am saying is that I think its over priced for my situation, as its a course designed for people that have not been around Multi crew operations. A lot companies can do this in house, unfortunately I can not.

Would you pay for a full 100k CPL course when you already have the necessary experience for the test? or are you an expert? is that what you are implying?

I do believe the training I have received over the years in have been adequate and I am reaching out for help as seem to be a bit of a monopoly in Australia, as it is well established and I feel I have no other option.

And also I think most would agreed that these are licenses to learn. you only get taught how to pass a test in training and you learn a lot more on the job.

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Old 19th Mar 2022, 05:15
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Originally Posted by tossbag
Not having a crack at you, but what I believe he/she is saying is that by the time costs are factored in, it could end up a two week/20k exercise. Personally I don't think it's worth it either. As in most things aviation in Australia it's probably double or triple the cost of other jurisdictions and double or triply complicated for no justifiable reason.

Thankyou. Its sad that I have been looking oversea to do an Australian ATPL test as its more affordable :S
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Old 19th Mar 2022, 08:48
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Without arguing whether it’s fair to be required to jump through hoops if you have prior experience, should your employer pay for it, whether over priced, or will make you a better pilot, the only way to look at it is - will an ATPL get you a job ahead of someone with a CPL ? Or if you are already in an airline, will it accelerate time to command? If either applies, how long to recoup the investment? Say, six months, a year maybe?
Going overseas, with travel, time out of work, meals and accommodation, paying an examiner etc may not really save you money. Ditto going via NZ, doing full medical there, training to local procedures, flight test etc, then using the TTMRA may seem the soft option, but not really, because CASA still make you jump through a few hoops and IPC on a multi crew type to get started.
re doing it at Ansett. No need for MCC if you have prior time on multi crew ops, but you would have to be type rated on one of their suitable sims. That rules out the King Air and B 737 classic, as CASA no longer accept either, due no proper RNAV capability. For a pilot with no prior time on larger aircraft, combining the ATPL with a type rating on something useful is probably best way to go, as by the time you have done the type rating you should be at ATPL test standard (or you probably wouldn’t pass the type rating).
The OP already has Dash 8 time, so that should save quite a few bucks if the test is done in an approved simulator. Ansett has one. But unless doing it in-house with an established operator that you already work for, a few hours’ prior practice with your support pilot is essential to get some SOPs nailed for the check.

Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 19th Mar 2022 at 10:15.
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Old 19th Mar 2022, 12:41
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Originally Posted by mogga04
Very insightful and mature way to look at it. No I'm am not saying that. What I am saying is that I think its over priced for my situation, as its a course designed for people that have not been around Multi crew operations. A lot companies can do this in house, unfortunately I can not.

Would you pay for a full 100k CPL course when you already have the necessary experience for the test? or are you an expert? is that what you are implying?

I do believe the training I have received over the years in have been adequate and I am reaching out for help as seem to be a bit of a monopoly in Australia, as it is well established and I feel I have no other option.

And also I think most would agreed that these are licenses to learn. you only get taught how to pass a test in training and you learn a lot more on the job.
You're talking about a small investment to upskill yourself. Not $100k.

Think of it this way, if youíre doing this to gain a command (because thatís about the only reason you would), how quickly are you going to earn your investment back?

Prior multi crew experience or not, the moment that you think you canít learn something, then you should hang up your wings.
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Old 19th Mar 2022, 18:40
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Don't worry, the new regulations won't cost Australians any extra money.
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Old 19th Mar 2022, 21:30
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Don't worry, the new regulations won't cost Australians any extra money.
Exactly! but just a minor detail right?
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