Australian ATPL flight test
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Australian ATPL flight test
I am looking to do an ATPL flight test but having trouble finding some one to do it.
I have seen see that flight options in Queensland have a course and fight test in the citation mustang sim, but it seem to be design around pilots have no multi crew experience and i would need to find someone else to do it with. I have about 500 hours co pilot of the dash100 I think an introduction to multi crew operations for several days is not needed.
Is there anyway to get around 61.700 (3)b or any part 142 operators with approval to do the training.
any insight from anyone that has had a similar situation would be muchly appreciated.
I have seen see that flight options in Queensland have a course and fight test in the citation mustang sim, but it seem to be design around pilots have no multi crew experience and i would need to find someone else to do it with. I have about 500 hours co pilot of the dash100 I think an introduction to multi crew operations for several days is not needed.
Is there anyway to get around 61.700 (3)b or any part 142 operators with approval to do the training.
any insight from anyone that has had a similar situation would be muchly appreciated.
You don't 'get around' any Australian legislation (unless you're a special case). In fact CASA will make up legislation associated with a clause you may be looking at or have their own special one person interpretation, depending on who you get of course.
As far as I'm aware the mob in Queensland are the only ones doing the ATPL flight test at this point in time??
As far as I'm aware the mob in Queensland are the only ones doing the ATPL flight test at this point in time??
Does Ansett not offer it?
https://www.ansettaviationtraining.com/training , website says they do it.
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I had about 1,000 hours of multi crew co-pilot time when I did the Flight Options MCC and ATPL course. I found the time spent doing the MCC was exceptionally valuable as preparation for the ATPL flight test - for me the ATPL component was as intense if not more so than ATPL flight planning. Admittedly I'd never been in a sim, never flown a glass aircraft, had a few grey hairs, and had extremely little exposure to autopilots at that point. I was fortunate to have a good sim buddy - that certainly helped too.
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I had about 1,000 hours of multi crew co-pilot time when I did the Flight Options MCC and ATPL course. I found the time spent doing the MCC was exceptionally valuable as preparation for the ATPL flight test - for me the ATPL component was as intense if not more so than ATPL flight planning. Admittedly I'd never been in a sim, never flown a glass aircraft, had a few grey hairs, and had extremely little exposure to autopilots at that point. I was fortunate to have a good sim buddy - that certainly helped too.
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So what you’re saying is that you don’t want to learn anything and are merely after someone to just tick a box for you because you’re an expert?
So what you’re saying is that you don’t want to learn anything and are merely after someone to just tick a box for you because you’re an expert?
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Very insightful and mature way to look at it. No I'm am not saying that. What I am saying is that I think its over priced for my situation, as its a course designed for people that have not been around Multi crew operations. A lot companies can do this in house, unfortunately I can not.
Would you pay for a full 100k CPL course when you already have the necessary experience for the test? or are you an expert? is that what you are implying?
I do believe the training I have received over the years in have been adequate and I am reaching out for help as seem to be a bit of a monopoly in Australia, as it is well established and I feel I have no other option.
And also I think most would agreed that these are licenses to learn. you only get taught how to pass a test in training and you learn a lot more on the job.
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Not having a crack at you, but what I believe he/she is saying is that by the time costs are factored in, it could end up a two week/20k exercise. Personally I don't think it's worth it either. As in most things aviation in Australia it's probably double or triple the cost of other jurisdictions and double or triply complicated for no justifiable reason.
Thankyou. Its sad that I have been looking oversea to do an Australian ATPL test as its more affordable :S
Without arguing whether it’s fair to be required to jump through hoops if you have prior experience, should your employer pay for it, whether over priced, or will make you a better pilot, the only way to look at it is - will an ATPL get you a job ahead of someone with a CPL ? Or if you are already in an airline, will it accelerate time to command? If either applies, how long to recoup the investment? Say, six months, a year maybe?
Going overseas, with travel, time out of work, meals and accommodation, paying an examiner etc may not really save you money. Ditto going via NZ, doing full medical there, training to local procedures, flight test etc, then using the TTMRA may seem the soft option, but not really, because CASA still make you jump through a few hoops and IPC on a multi crew type to get started.
re doing it at Ansett. No need for MCC if you have prior time on multi crew ops, but you would have to be type rated on one of their suitable sims. That rules out the King Air and B 737 classic, as CASA no longer accept either, due no proper RNAV capability. For a pilot with no prior time on larger aircraft, combining the ATPL with a type rating on something useful is probably best way to go, as by the time you have done the type rating you should be at ATPL test standard (or you probably wouldn’t pass the type rating).
The OP already has Dash 8 time, so that should save quite a few bucks if the test is done in an approved simulator. Ansett has one. But unless doing it in-house with an established operator that you already work for, a few hours’ prior practice with your support pilot is essential to get some SOPs nailed for the check.
Going overseas, with travel, time out of work, meals and accommodation, paying an examiner etc may not really save you money. Ditto going via NZ, doing full medical there, training to local procedures, flight test etc, then using the TTMRA may seem the soft option, but not really, because CASA still make you jump through a few hoops and IPC on a multi crew type to get started.
re doing it at Ansett. No need for MCC if you have prior time on multi crew ops, but you would have to be type rated on one of their suitable sims. That rules out the King Air and B 737 classic, as CASA no longer accept either, due no proper RNAV capability. For a pilot with no prior time on larger aircraft, combining the ATPL with a type rating on something useful is probably best way to go, as by the time you have done the type rating you should be at ATPL test standard (or you probably wouldn’t pass the type rating).
The OP already has Dash 8 time, so that should save quite a few bucks if the test is done in an approved simulator. Ansett has one. But unless doing it in-house with an established operator that you already work for, a few hours’ prior practice with your support pilot is essential to get some SOPs nailed for the check.
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 19th Mar 2022 at 10:15.
Very insightful and mature way to look at it. No I'm am not saying that. What I am saying is that I think its over priced for my situation, as its a course designed for people that have not been around Multi crew operations. A lot companies can do this in house, unfortunately I can not.
Would you pay for a full 100k CPL course when you already have the necessary experience for the test? or are you an expert? is that what you are implying?
I do believe the training I have received over the years in have been adequate and I am reaching out for help as seem to be a bit of a monopoly in Australia, as it is well established and I feel I have no other option.
And also I think most would agreed that these are licenses to learn. you only get taught how to pass a test in training and you learn a lot more on the job.
Would you pay for a full 100k CPL course when you already have the necessary experience for the test? or are you an expert? is that what you are implying?
I do believe the training I have received over the years in have been adequate and I am reaching out for help as seem to be a bit of a monopoly in Australia, as it is well established and I feel I have no other option.
And also I think most would agreed that these are licenses to learn. you only get taught how to pass a test in training and you learn a lot more on the job.
Think of it this way, if you’re doing this to gain a command (because that’s about the only reason you would), how quickly are you going to earn your investment back?
Prior multi crew experience or not, the moment that you think you can’t learn something, then you should hang up your wings.