Runway excursion at Lord Howe Island
Thread Starter
Runway excursion at Lord Howe Island
I heard on the bush telegraph that a Kingair allegedly had an excursion at Lord Howe Island within the last week, causing runway fodder and damage to some ground equipment. Speaking with a passenger, word is that they literally missed the runway.
Can’t see this on the ATSB website. Would that be enough of an incident to trigger an ATSB entry?
Can’t see this on the ATSB website. Would that be enough of an incident to trigger an ATSB entry?
I heard on the bush telegraph that a Kingair allegedly had an excursion at Lord Howe Island within the last week, causing runway fodder and damage to some ground equipment. Speaking with a passenger, word is that they literally missed the runway.
Can’t see this on the ATSB website. Would that be enough of an incident to trigger an ATSB entry?
Can’t see this on the ATSB website. Would that be enough of an incident to trigger an ATSB entry?
DF.
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G'day,
just wondering about those of you who use FS2020.
There is an add on for LHI scenery that is great(payware) & it also has a 'Landing Challenge".
THe LHI landing challenge is what I always start my sim session with - in RL I have landed there in an AC690B & a Navajho - both times were very interesting to say the least for somebody who was not ever checked into LHI - so left to learn it the hard way.
Obviously the 690 was the easier of the 2 to do an acceptable landing - never liked the Navajho in a x/wind - always seeemed to run out of aileron control troo soon.
In my retirement I am realy enjoying FS2020 - no bloody CASA - no annoying ATC - go anywhere & do anything - all great fun. The visuals are stunning but gotta have a good computer to really make it sing.
just wondering about those of you who use FS2020.
There is an add on for LHI scenery that is great(payware) & it also has a 'Landing Challenge".
THe LHI landing challenge is what I always start my sim session with - in RL I have landed there in an AC690B & a Navajho - both times were very interesting to say the least for somebody who was not ever checked into LHI - so left to learn it the hard way.
Obviously the 690 was the easier of the 2 to do an acceptable landing - never liked the Navajho in a x/wind - always seeemed to run out of aileron control troo soon.
In my retirement I am realy enjoying FS2020 - no bloody CASA - no annoying ATC - go anywhere & do anything - all great fun. The visuals are stunning but gotta have a good computer to really make it sing.
Well the report is out. Some interesting quotes in there too.
Touchdown off the runway surface involving Raytheon B200, VH-MVP, at Lord Howe Island Airport, NSW, on 18 February 2022 | ATSB
Touchdown off the runway surface involving Raytheon B200, VH-MVP, at Lord Howe Island Airport, NSW, on 18 February 2022 | ATSB
genuine question, NOT criticism of the pilot...
Unless there was a considerable time saving (e.g. POM from the south) why would an operator or pilot prefer a DME arrival over a RNP Runway approach?
Lack of approved equipment? Pilot not approved? Company 'culture'?
Unless there was a considerable time saving (e.g. POM from the south) why would an operator or pilot prefer a DME arrival over a RNP Runway approach?
Lack of approved equipment? Pilot not approved? Company 'culture'?
It's easy for us (and the ATSB) to arm-chair quarter-back these things, but it does appear he was a little reluctant to go around..
When you live....
Thread Starter
I heard that the islands council (operator) were VERY unhappy about this. There last thing they would ever want there is a plane crash of any kind.
I heard that's why they put a mountain either side of the runway to induce plenty of turbulence on final - plus zero over-run area so errant pilots would end up in the ocean... Makes for awesome viewing from the terminal!
Sadly the ‘islands council’ have little control over what happens. Thankfully they are not unhappy that often!
I’m sure the pilot was also VERY unhappy about this, as the usual intent is to stick to the runway! Stuff happens!
Thread Starter
It's easy for us (and the ATSB) to arm-chair quarter-back these things, but it does appear he was a little reluctant to go around..
I get that LHI, like Norfolk, is a place where the niceties of plenty of alternates with diversion fuel to go there are not available. However circling approaches in non-circling areas and marginal to non-existent VMC is going to kill you eventually, regardless of its location. Let that be your lesson from this report.
Last edited by Lookleft; 28th May 2023 at 00:51.
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The report goes as close to suggesting that the pilot and the company have not been complete with the truth as they’re not apportioning blame policy allows.
You might want to have another read of the report if your only conclusion was the pilot was reluctant to go-around. The fact that the ATSB has issued two recommendations and does not accept EAL's response to it is an indication of their elevated concern that there will be a fatal accident at LHI. The decision to not go-around was the safer option in a situation where the safety margins had already been reduced to a point that it had become a game of Russian Roulette.
That ATSB is calling out EAL's culture is a good indication that, as a company, they're an accident waiting to happen. Hopefully they'll take this seriously and do something about it.
Last edited by PiperCameron; 30th May 2023 at 02:17. Reason: "Fatal" removed from post
Seems to me the operator was trying to impress on the ATSB that the safest option, in this instance; was to land slightly off the runway rather then trying to conduct a go around in the high wind low vis situation. Outcome kinda of speaks for itself: nil aircraft damage, nil injuries, 1 busted runway light.
If the aircraft had gone around, while suffering wind induced controllability issues with those mountains either side in low vis, could've been catastrophic. I'm sure the LHI board would find that a lot less palatable.
If the aircraft had gone around, while suffering wind induced controllability issues with those mountains either side in low vis, could've been catastrophic. I'm sure the LHI board would find that a lot less palatable.
around at least once and still have enough fuel on board to divert, you have no business flying into LHI.
Then you think that YHOT is equivalent? YHOT is on top of a hill, not surrounded by them. YHOT is also only a stones throw fuel wise to many other airports. Seeing as you bought YHOT up though it is a prime example of what can go wrong when dodgy visual approaches are used to somehow outsmart the system.
genuine question, NOT criticism of the pilot...
Unless there was a considerable time saving (e.g. POM from the south) why would an operator or pilot prefer a DME arrival over a RNP Runway approach?
Lack of approved equipment? Pilot not approved? Company 'culture'?
Unless there was a considerable time saving (e.g. POM from the south) why would an operator or pilot prefer a DME arrival over a RNP Runway approach?
Lack of approved equipment? Pilot not approved? Company 'culture'?
If you fly the RNP approach as a straight in, then you fly the constant 3º slope down to an 800' minima (at about 2.5 miles to the threshold), and once visual you only need 4.5 km vis on this approach. The DME is easier to fly (less lateral tracking) than the RNP (depending I suppose on how sophisticated your autopilot is).
Given the cloud, it looks like the pilot thought that option A would be the more assured way of getting visual ... the problem was that it very much looks like he didn't maintain VMC.
The pilot stated that visual contact with the runway was maintained throughout the final approach but, due to crosswind from the left and as the aircraft tracked into the lee of the mountain to the north of the runway, some realignment with the runway was necessary.
Regardless, he pushed on with the (now illegal) approach and once he finally saw the runway just 400m away slammed in a left/right turn combination that had him overshoot and land on the grass - then said that he began a go-around, but cancelled that when he felt the touch-down (also a bad decision - once you begin a go around, you commit to it.).