The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions The place for students, instructors and charter guys in Oz, NZ and the rest of Oceania.

What has happened to SBAS?

Old 3rd Jul 2022, 10:42
  #21 (permalink)  

PPRuNe Handmaiden
 
Join Date: Feb 1997
Location: Duit On Mon Dei
Posts: 4,569
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Hi Sunfish "except Australians are last to benefit as usual.", better than the UK who had SBAS for LPV approaches but after leaving the EU and EASA, no longer have access to it. Another win for Brexit....
redsnail is offline  
Old 3rd Jul 2022, 11:20
  #22 (permalink)  
Bug
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Here
Posts: 11
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Redsnail
Not sure how that is "better than the UK".
At least UK had SBAS LPV for a time.
We have never had it.
Bug is offline  
Old 5th Jul 2022, 19:42
  #23 (permalink)  

PPRuNe Handmaiden
 
Join Date: Feb 1997
Location: Duit On Mon Dei
Posts: 4,569
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Yep, we had it and lost it all because of ridiculous politics.... No idea if the UK will ever get it back again. Frustrating.
redsnail is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2022, 09:44
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: YMML
Posts: 2,533
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
According to this site. Not going to be fully operational till 2025.
OZBUSDRIVER is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2022, 09:55
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: YMML
Posts: 2,533
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Here is some info that may make Redsnail happy
OZBUSDRIVER is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2022, 10:32
  #26 (permalink)  

PPRuNe Handmaiden
 
Join Date: Feb 1997
Location: Duit On Mon Dei
Posts: 4,569
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Cheers Ozbusdriver, I reckon I'll be retired before it's operational
redsnail is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2022, 11:52
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: moon
Posts: 3,496
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
OZbusdriver, thank you, but......... "researching applications 25 years after the technology was released and available in the USA??? What is the Government smoking? Do they think Einsteins field equations and Maxwells equations are 'different" down under?

WAAS/SBAS is settled science get on with it! There is SFA need for research!!!!!!!! Miners and Farmers need it now!!!!!!
Sunfish is offline  
Old 6th Jul 2022, 12:22
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: FNQ ... It's Permanent!
Posts: 4,003
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
Miners and Farmers need it now!!!!!!
Croppies have been using their own DGPS for years. No reason why Mining and Farmers canítÖ.. if they are not already!
Capt Fathom is offline  
Old 20th Sep 2022, 23:36
  #29 (permalink)  
Bug
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: Here
Posts: 11
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Contract awarded to Lockheed Martin.
Glacial progress so far, but maybe this indicates light at the end of the tunnel (hopefully that light isn't the headlight of an oncoming train full of Canberra bureaucrats moved to oversee this project).

I cannot post web links yet.
Google " Lockheed Martin awarded SouthPAN contract " in Aust Defence Magazine.



Bug is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2022, 01:15
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posts: 192
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
I've been following SBAS for a little while from a personal interest in satellite tech and the work of some folks I know, and although not all that clear as yet, I'm told that the system we'll be getting is slightly different and much more advanced than the other GPS augmentation systems out there.

I note various articles are talking about it (a) making Baro-VNAV completely redundant and (b) offering better than 100mm accuracy on approach.
PiperCameron is offline  
Old 21st Sep 2022, 01:48
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,509
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 14 Posts
“100mm accuracy”…. Hmmm… I wonder if terrorists could make use of a bomb drone with that sort of accuracy…..







​​​​​…
Flying Binghi is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2022, 03:01
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posts: 192
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Flying Binghi View Post
“100mm accuracy”…. Hmmm… I wonder if terrorists could make use of a bomb drone with that sort of accuracy​​​​…
Probably... and that might be part of the reason for the roll-out delay whilst they work through challenges like that.

They were joking that it's accurate enough to allow you to choose which part of the center-line stripe you wanted to land on. If it's as good as they say, that's crazy!
PiperCameron is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2022, 07:09
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 0A
Posts: 8,303
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by P Cameron
I note various articles are talking about it (a) making Baro-VNAV completely redundant
Nothing new in that. Different system, different boxes required. SBAS has always given you LPV, which has lower DAs than LNAV-VNAV, but about the same as RNP-AR, without, as I understand it, a lot of the hassle.
Capn Bloggs is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2022, 07:35
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: FNQ ... It's Permanent!
Posts: 4,003
Received 8 Likes on 6 Posts
The SYD and MEL GBAS approaches have near enough to 200' DH.
Capt Fathom is offline  
Old 22nd Sep 2022, 14:06
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Enroute from Dagobah to Tatooine...!
Posts: 790
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Whatever you do, don't use it yet:MELBOURNE FIR/BRISBANE FIR (YMMM/YBBB)
C1311/22
NEW SBAS SOUTHPAN (SERVICE PROVIDER IDENTIFIER 8) (L1, DFMC) NOT
COMMISSIONED
RADIATING ON TEST, DO NOT USE FOR NAVIGATION DUE POSSIBLE FALSE
INDICATIONS
FROM 09 140237 TO 11 300200 EST
Captain Nomad is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2022, 10:59
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: TinselTown
Age: 44
Posts: 201
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
(b) offering better than 100mm accuracy on approach.
Great! Let's wait another 5 years and get it down to 20mm accuracy
Lumps is offline  
Old 10th Oct 2022, 12:44
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,509
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by Lumps View Post
Great! Let's wait another 5 years and get it down to 20mm accuracy
We may not have a civilian usable GPS signal in 5 years.


It is interesting having a look-see at one of Indonesias main news services YouTube channel. Seems they are supporting terrorists who send missiles into cityís. Have a look-see at the comments sections of the vids..


https://m.youtube.com/c/tribuntimur/videos
Flying Binghi is offline  
Old 15th Oct 2022, 01:54
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: YMML
Posts: 2,533
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Binghi, can you be a bit more specific with your links. My indonesian language skills is not too good.
OZBUSDRIVER is offline  
Old 17th Oct 2022, 02:21
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,509
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by OZBUSDRIVER View Post
Binghi, can you be a bit more specific with your links. My indonesian language skills is not too good.
Most of the vids relating to the war are pro putin. They do offer up a little counterbalance at times, though not much.

No need to do many translations. Just have a look at all the Russian flags in the comments section.

Here’s an example:

Peluncur Roket Pasukan Muslim Chechnya Meluncur Bak Hujan Deras 'Proyektil' di Nasionalis Ukraina

Chechen Muslim Forces Rocket Launcher Launches Like Torrential Rain 'Projectile' in Ukrainian Nationalists


Flying Binghi is offline  
Old 17th Oct 2022, 04:18
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: Melbourne, Victoria
Posts: 192
Received 6 Likes on 6 Posts
Originally Posted by Flying Binghi View Post
We may not have a civilian usable GPS signal in 5 years.
Are you referring to the US-controlled GPS constellation specifically? or GPS/GNSS more generally?? If the former, then the US has always been able to 'tweak' the accuracy in certain contested regions and if the latter, it's only the lazy/stupid terrierists that would rely on civilian GPS in a war zone - everyone else sets up their own (classified) positioning systems anyway.

Even though Australia now has a highly-paid 'Space Command' with a remit to ensure Aussie satellites and signals don't get tampered with (exactly how they'll do that is anyone's guess), perhaps on final approach GBAS has it's advantages after all.

I get the impression we went with SBAS partly because it was cheaper than installing GBAS stations at every major airport.. but others here may know.
PiperCameron is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.