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Alternative flying careers and bouncing back

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Alternative flying careers and bouncing back

Old 15th Apr 2021, 05:21
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Alternative flying careers and bouncing back

Anyone working on a different career post-covid mess? are you hoping to get back into flying again?
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Old 15th Apr 2021, 10:55
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I don't think you quite understand. The airline industry is over as we know it and it went down without a fight. By 2029 the UK plans to have only three airports Heathrow, Glasgow and Belfast. And by 2050 there will be zero airports.
After that there will be reopening of airports that only use electric planes. All internal travel and connections will be made by rail. Therefore holidays will be greatly reduced and so will international travel. That is the plan.
This is what happens when you comply with the K0VID agenda (the cover for Agenda Twenty One). It is all set out here https://www.ukfires.org/wp-content/u...ero-online.pdf
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Old 15th Apr 2021, 12:08
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Originally Posted by peterlike View Post
I don't think you quite understand. The airline industry is over as we know it and it went down without a fight. By 2029 the UK plans to have only three airports Heathrow, Glasgow and Belfast. And by 2050 there will be zero airports.
After that there will be reopening of airports that only use electric planes. All internal travel and connections will be made by rail. Therefore holidays will be greatly reduced and so will international travel. That is the plan.
This is what happens when you comply with the K0VID agenda (the cover for Agenda Twenty One). It is all set out here https://www.ukfires.org/wp-content/u...ero-online.pdf
Fkn lol gave me a good chuckle
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Old 15th Apr 2021, 12:26
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Originally Posted by peterlike View Post
I don't think you quite understand. The airline industry is over as we know it and it went down without a fight. By 2029 the UK plans to have only three airports Heathrow, Glasgow and Belfast. And by 2050 there will be zero airports.
After that there will be reopening of airports that only use electric planes. All internal travel and connections will be made by rail. Therefore holidays will be greatly reduced and so will international travel. That is the plan.
This is what happens when you comply with the K0VID agenda (the cover for Agenda Twenty One). It is all set out here https://www.ukfires.org/wp-content/u...ero-online.pdf
Red wine or whisky? Whatever you're drinking, it's working.
Cheers.
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Old 15th Apr 2021, 23:02
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Red face

You don't believe it.........France is already planning on banning internal flights, if you can get there by train you go by train.
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Old 15th Apr 2021, 23:17
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Originally Posted by navajoe View Post
You don't believe it.........France is already planning on banning internal flights, if you can get there by train you go by train.
Kinda makes sense where you have high speed trains and lines everywhere. Probably quicker than flying in most cases anyway!
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Old 16th Apr 2021, 02:49
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That being the case: 1Rail is after Trainee Locomotive Driver's in Darwin. I gave up flying as a career years ago and haven't looked back. I still do fly, but on my terms, when I want, where I want - and I don't have to deal with airport security!
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Old 16th Apr 2021, 03:01
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Kinda makes sense where you have high speed trains and lines everywhere. Probably quicker than flying in most cases anyway!
I guess they have to try and justify the ludicrous cost of building them one way or another. One way to do this is by creating transport monopolies under the guise of environmentalism. Don't forget that France's electricity is Nuclear which is absolutely despised by Green groups so who knows what is really green and what isn't anymore. If people don't want to fly they won't fly, but to have the government actually ban flying is a disgrace in a so-called democracy. Train travel is subsidised enough by governments they don't need to actually ban the competition as well.

French MPs have voted to suspend domestic airline flights on routes that can be travelled by direct train in less than two and a half hours, as part of a series of climate and environmental measures.

After a heated debate in the Assemblée Nationale at the weekend, the ban, a watered-down version of a key recommendation from President Emmanuel Macron’s citizens’ climate convention was adopted.

It will mean the end of short internal flights from Orly airport, south of Paris, to Nantes and Bordeaux among others, though connecting flights through Charles de Gaulle/Roissy airport, north of the French capital, will continue.

The climate commission set up by Macron had originally recommended the scrapping of all flights between French destinations where an alternative direct train journey of less than four hours existed.

This was reduced to two and a half hours after strong objections from certain regions and from Air France-KLM, which, like other airlines, has been badly hit by local and international Covid-19 restrictions on travel.

A year ago, the French government agreed a €7bn loan for AF-KLM on the condition that certain internal flights were dropped, but the decree will also stop low-cost airlines from operating the banned domestic routes.

The chief executive of Air France-KLM, Benjamin Smith, has said the airline is committed to reducing the number of its French domestic routes by 40% by the end of this year.

The transport minister, Jean-Baptiste Djebbari, told MPs: “We have chosen two and a half hours because four hours risks isolating landlocked territories including the greater Massif Central, which would be iniquitous.”

The measure, part of a climate and resilience bill, was passed despite cross-party opposition. The Socialist MP Joël Aviragnet said the measure would have a “disproportionate human cost” and warned of job losses in the airline sector. Other MPs, including from the Green party, complained that watering down the climate convention’s recommendation had made the measure meaningless.

Mathilde Panot, of the hard left La France Insoumise, said the measure had been “emptied”, while her colleague Danièle Obono said retaining the four-hour threshold would have made it possible to halt routes that “emit the most greenhouse gases”.

The French consumer association UFC-Que Choisir had called on MPs to retain the four-hour recommendation and give the new law “some substance … while also putting in place safeguards that [French national rail] SNCF will not seize the opportunity to artificially inflate its prices or degrade the

quality of rail service.

“The Covid-19 pandemic is exacerbating pre-existing environmental and social crises. It must lead us to rethink our health policies in order to face the challenge of future health crises of infectious origin.”

It added that banning domestic flights if a direct train alternative of fewer than four hours existed it would have a “real impact” on reducing CO2 emissions and would not adversely affect travel times or prices.

“On average, the plane emits 77 times more CO2 per passenger than the train on these routes, even though the train is cheaper and the time lost is limited to 40 minutes,” it said. “Our study shows that … the government’s choice actually aims to empty the measure of its substance.”

Details of the exact routes that will be halted will be published in the official decree. Flights from Paris to Nice, which takes about six hours by train, and Toulouse, four hours by train, will continue.

France’s new law will be watched closely by other countries. Austria’s coalition conservative-green government introduced a €30 tax on airline tickets for flights of less than 217 miles (350km) last June and a ban on domestic flights that could be travelled in less than three hours by train.

Meanwhile, the Netherlands has been trying since June 2013 to ban short domestic flights. In 2019, Dutch MPs voted to ban flights between Schiphol airport in Amsterdam and Zaventem airport in Brussels, a distance of 93 miles. However, the ban was seen as breaking European commission free-movement regulations and was not implemented.
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Old 16th Apr 2021, 05:57
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now how does that saying go again...

Time to spare? Go by air.
Those with brains, catch trains.

pretty sure that dates from WW2 or before.
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Old 16th Apr 2021, 07:38
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A few years ago I was in France to head to Toulouse. Flew into Paris and spend a couple of days there then elected to go to TLS by train. Options were walking 100 metres from Paris hotel to station and 250m from station to TLS hotel vs catching bus / taxi to airport, checking in, waiting, the flight, then baggage retrieval, and taxi to hotel.

It was probably the same time by train door to door, but much more comfortable and way less stressful. Huge tray table, big window, in seat power, wide aisles to walk down, no worries about the cabbie not turning up and getting stuck in traffic......

Last edited by compressor stall; 16th Apr 2021 at 07:49.
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Old 16th Apr 2021, 08:41
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Originally Posted by neville_nobody View Post
If people don't want to fly they won't fly, but to have the government actually ban flying is a disgrace in a so-called democracy.
Why? Various governments around the world are banning the production of cars powered by ICEs for the (eventual) greater long term health of the environment. I expect much greater scrutiny into aviation emissions over the coming years.

It's a fallacy that democracies allow people freedom to do whatever they want.

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Old 8th Jul 2021, 14:48
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Fkn lol gave me a good chuckle

Yup, I'm sure the Soviet Union was a great laugh. Their citizens were not allowed to leave their country - how they Fkn LOLed
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Old 8th Jul 2021, 14:57
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Agenda – ABSOLUTE ZERO TRANSPORT INNOVATION WORKSHOP | Friday 23rd April, 9:30 – 12:30

So how are you going to have ZERO CARBON if you still got kerosene planes flying around. They tell you their plans to your face and you still can't see it.
ZERO CARBON in 29 YEARS!
They are working on Self Driving Cars, Don't you think Self Driving Planes won't follow soon after. In fact they already here, as you well know. Look up, The Boeing Honeywell Uninterruptible Autopilot
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Old 8th Jul 2021, 22:15
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It's all very well in little old Europe to bang on about being carbon free. South Foreland in the UK to Cap Gris Nez near Calais in France is 21 miles. We have cattle stations down here with driveways longer than that. Somehow I can't visualise our station managers in bedroom slippers riding to work on their electric scooters. We use light aircraft as pick-up trucks because it is the only way to get around.

India and China are the biggest problem in the pollution stakes. In all my layovers in these two countries I've never seen a blue sky. Most of the major airports in India are CAT3 because it is the only way to get in. Aviation in this country is here to stay and yes, it will recover.
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Old 8th Jul 2021, 22:36
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Originally Posted by peterlike View Post

Agenda – ABSOLUTE ZERO TRANSPORT INNOVATION WORKSHOP | Friday 23rd April, 9:30 – 12:30

So how are you going to have ZERO CARBON if you still got kerosene planes flying around. They tell you their plans to your face and you still can't see it.
ZERO CARBON in 29 YEARS!
They are working on Self Driving Cars, Don't you think Self Driving Planes won't follow soon after. In fact they already here, as you well know. Look up, The Boeing Honeywell Uninterruptible Autopilot
By using Electric ones? And duh, we all know about Autopilot and how it's been progressing over the years (We mostly all use the things every day?) but we also all know about things like the Boeing MAX and how that will set it all back quite a bit. We're still decades away from the public being ok with fully automatised Ground Vehicles, let alone Aircraft. Don't you love it when conspiracy nutters bring out things like this as if they were some type of smoking gun?

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Old 9th Jul 2021, 11:29
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Originally Posted by peterlike View Post

Agenda – ABSOLUTE ZERO TRANSPORT INNOVATION WORKSHOP | Friday 23rd April, 9:30 – 12:30

So how are you going to have ZERO CARBON if you still got kerosene planes flying around. They tell you their plans to your face and you still can't see it.
ZERO CARBON in 29 YEARS!
They are working on Self Driving Cars, Don't you think Self Driving Planes won't follow soon after. In fact they already here, as you well know. Look up, The Boeing Honeywell Uninterruptible Autopilot
I love nut jobs like this - keeps me smiling. Better than the wacko god botherers any day!!
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Old 9th Jul 2021, 23:49
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Read the link to the paper which Peterlike originally posted. It’s not by some Extinction Rebellion nutjobs.

It is written by a bunch of serous academics in the UK and spells out the pathway to zero emissions by 2050. It may all seem draconian to us now, but don’t be surprised if we are all forced along a perhaps less extreme pathway.

One thing it also says is for us to reduce eating lamb and beef. Yikes!! I’d worry more about that than reducing cheap and nasty LCC travel.
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Old 10th Jul 2021, 00:06
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Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist View Post
I love nut jobs like this - keeps me smiling. Better than the wacko god botherers any day!!
OK, it won’t happen tomorrow but for sure it’s coming. There’s UAVs traversing the skies of the Middle East continuously. I’ve seen one at FL500 (as reported by ATC) about 15 years ago overhead Bahrain. One can only imagine how much further they’ve advanced since then.

The Tesla autopilot we all sneer at has to work in a far more unpredictable environment than any aircraft. Swathes of airspace can be closed off to preclude uncontrolled and unexpected traffic. Something you can’t do with roads. By way of example, the trains which get you around Changi Airport are unmanned, tens of thousands use this every day without a second thought.

And wasn’t that failed Uber wet dream of short haul intra city air taxis based on unmanned quadcopters? My point here is that the concept of unmanned transport can be sold to the travelling public. Something too many pilots refuse to accept.
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Old 10th Jul 2021, 00:13
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Originally Posted by lucille View Post
Read the link to the paper which Peterlike originally posted. It’s not by some Extinction Rebellion nutjobs.

It is written by a bunch of serous academics in the UK and spells out the pathway to zero emissions by 2050. It may all seem draconian to us now, but don’t be surprised if we are all forced along a perhaps less extreme pathway.

One thing it also says is for us to reduce eating lamb and beef. Yikes!! I’d worry more about that than reducing cheap and nasty LCC travel.
It's just an academic paper, not a government policy. Go back another 30 years and you probably would have found papers describing Absolute Zero by 2020 as well, in fact, here's a paper I wrote called "Absolute Zero 2022: STOP USING FUEL RIGHT NOW". That doesn't mean it's going to actually happen by then.

The fact is that if we wanted to stop all man-made pollution tomorrow, we probably could but of course, we all realise there are LOTS of good reasons why we couldn't just switch everything off tomorrow and there's absolutely no real desire in the world to do this.

This is all relevant to the topic btw, anyone in Aviation now has to realise that as an industry it has a finite lifetime, Automation will slowly creep in more and more, projects like high speed rail, automated vehicles and many other new techs will eventually reduce the need for Aviation significantly in the future (Covid has probably accelerated that a bit). If you've got more than 20 years left in you before retirement you should definitely be thinking of other options and start making moves towards them. Go do some really part time study on something you enjoy, stash some money away in a special account to start your own business, invest heavily now to set yourself up for later, plenty of options but as I was once very wisely taught in Aviation, "You should never find yourself somewhere you don't have a plan to get back out of".
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