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Car electrical failure causes man to drown.

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Car electrical failure causes man to drown.

Old 28th Mar 2021, 06:04
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Westside
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Bring back manual rear window winders?
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Old 28th Mar 2021, 06:22
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: UK/OZ
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During a rescue I broke a side window which was tinted, using a crow bar, it took a few whacks to get it to shatter (I used the pointy tip) and a few more to dislodge the film. I had the RescueMe glass punch, but reached for the crowbar when I saw the window was tinted.
Noise reduction seems to be a popular reason for having laminated fitted. Laminated side windows is an option on XC90 Volvos, but they have a crash awareness system that unlocks door following a crash.
Some manufacturers do not make them an option for both front and back side windows see attached list.
Personally I'de be lowering windows as soon as possible rather than waiting for pressure to equalise and then opening the door.
Once the water is in the car it is almost impossible to buildup the energy to kickout front or rear windows.
Anyone who has done HUET has, no doubt, thought about self extraction from a vehicle. I carried a compact set of self extraction tools when engaged in aerial photography, as I have experience and training in extraction... also spare air ect ect.
Anyone who live in Netherlands care to comment on best practice for driving alongside canals on a daily basis?

https://www.aaa.com/AAA/common/AAR/f...hicle-List.pdf

A jolly subject.. not.

Mjb
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Old 28th Mar 2021, 06:43
  #23 (permalink)  
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Roll seat back as far as it will go, raise feet to windscreen, bl**dy hard double foot kick. Rinse and repeat until happy
Thanks for all the most interesting replies. Kicking out a window is what a solo trainee pilot did when his Winjeel caught fire at 3500 ft over RAAF Base uranquinty NSW in 1956. He was a short chap and unable to reach far enough backwards to pull an emergency handle that would jettison the canopy overboard.
So he released his seat harness and clambered from the left seat to the right seat and managed to kick out both side windows. He then dived through the gap but the buckle of his parachute release box caught on a projection under one of the windows which were mighty small.

He was able to kick his way free then rolled on to the port wing and slid off the wing and parachuted to safety. By then the engine fire extinguished itself leaving the Winjeel to glide nicely trimmed until it gently hit the ground in the middle of Uranquinty village. Just before he got out he put in lots of right rudder trim to help the Winjeel turn right to avoid the village; except the Winjeel was so well trimmed it did a 360 rate one turn and hit the village anyway. No one hurt but several chickens died of fright when it landed near their coop. When the fire rescue truck arrived 10 minutes later the canopy was still on the aircraft but no sign of the pilot.
I saw him bale out and we all thought he had had it until his parachute finally opened in time.

Re the RAAF canopy breaker tool which was introduced circa 1963. It equipped the Sabre, and later the CT4 and Macchi jet trainer in those days. Experiments revealed it would break through a Sabre canopy in 30 seconds of hammering. It saved its first life when a RAAF Sabre aborted a takeoff at high speed in Ubon. It finished up in a paddy field and caught fire. The pilot could only wind back the canopy a couple of inches befor it jammed. He used the canopy breaker tool to jemmy his way to safety. I have seen pictures of the Spitfire cockpit. The side opening hatch to the cockpit has a small crowbar clipped in place. So the principle is not new
Before I left the RAAF in 1969 I managed to obtain one of the original canopy breaker knives and to this day it is in the glove box of my car.. You never know..

Last edited by Centaurus; 28th Mar 2021 at 07:07.
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Old 28th Mar 2021, 07:24
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Australia
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Originally Posted by jolihokistix View Post
Sometimes over a bad line a report might sound like "45 minutes", when it was actually "four to five minutes".
True. Big difference would be in time to get out. In 45 minutes I bet I could get out of a car even without tools but in 4-5 minutes before submerged it would be a whole different deal!
Think in this situation he went into the water at speed, not having seen it, and it likely shorted out the electronics instantly.
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Old 28th Mar 2021, 08:03
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
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Check out “Helicopter Underwater Escape Training”
Scary stuff.
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Old 28th Mar 2021, 08:05
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
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Originally Posted by Centaurus View Post
You would have thought the vehicle's design team would have foreseen the possibility of electrical failure and designed a manual override system.
They did. It is a legal requirement in many countries that the internal door handles operate without electrical power, and it's very unlikely that any Toyota uses anything other than a mechanical connection for this purpose. However, it's largely academic, as if the vehicle is underwater the occupant would likely be unable to open the doors against the water.
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Old 28th Mar 2021, 16:20
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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I ended up in this ditch after encountering black ice in December 1986.I can't remember whether I climbed out of the passenger window,or door,which would have been heavy to lift.Ever since then,all my cars have had electric windows and door locks,and I have kept a widow-breaking hammer sold for the purpose,in the door pocket.
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Old 28th Mar 2021, 21:18
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Location: Florida
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Yup, I have center punch escape hammers in the driver door pockets of both family cars. I have thought about taping or zip tying them in place in case of a roll. With Ex82's post, I am going to secure them.
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Old 29th Mar 2021, 10:58
  #29 (permalink)  
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I recall the story of a someone who bought his wife an escape tool and told her to keep it in the car.

She kept it in in box in the boot.
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Old 29th Mar 2021, 11:51
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: QLD - where drivers are yet to realise that the left lane goes to their destination too.
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All very well with the benefit of hindsight. Suddenly finding yourself in a sinking car...? 3-4 minutes goes pretty quick. Most people would probably waste 1 or 2 trying to figure out what was happening, getting over the shock, then trying to get the door open. Once you realise you can't get the door open, you go for the window, and guess what, they don't work. You panic. All over. Even worse, you waste time getting your phone out.

When I lived in the Territory, and crossing rivers was a relatively regular occurrence, I was always amazed how many people with with flash new electric everything 4WD's would charge in without a second thought. I always wound the windows down before a crossing.
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Old 29th Mar 2021, 12:23
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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With most floods there is a lot of water flowing and many people think their tyres will magically stick to the road. Once you get washed off the road the tumbling may start, a stationary tree or pole becomes very dangerous, getting wedged risks submarining. If you are lucky and can get out it still ain't over. These same people often have a similar false perception of the dangers of fire and smoke around them. It's a complete disconnect from reality and generally outside most people's realm of experience - stretching the truth in commercial advertising of their vehicle's capability doesn't help either.

The escape tool is handy for breaking the windows when your car has caught fire (usually after an accident) and the doors/windows won't open, but you need to not sustain any major injuries in order to use it. We have a story in my part of the world in the late 90's of a doctor purchasing a brand new BMW 7-Series and subsequently loosing control in a turn and hit a tree head on at a remote location. He survived the crash but the car caught on fire and the doors and windows wouldn't open. His charred body was found in the back seat.
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Old 30th Mar 2021, 07:13
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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The external force of water pressure on even a partially submerged
car would require enormous force to open a door.
The cabin would need to be fully flooded before opening would be possible by normal means.
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Old 31st Mar 2021, 06:41
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Centaurus,
RIP the poor guy. I guess he possibly couldn’t swim as well. Maybe this is why he was hesitant to get out of the car early.

The crowbar in the Spitfire door was actually to rupture the landing gear hydraulic lines. Basically the L/G emergency system was a CO2 bottle on the RHS of the cockpit. If you inadvertently activated this with the gear up the pressure meant that you could not move the landing gear lever (more correctly called the chassis lever) to the down position. This resulted in a number of wheels up landings. The solution in typical British fashion wasn’t to re-engineer the system but to provide the crow bar. If you inadvertently fired the CO2 bottle you could then rupture the up line going to the chassis control (the gear lever) and relieve the pressure and drop the gear.

The canopy jettison system was a knob above your head, a pretty simple and light weight system. Of course like everything it did fail occasionally.
Beez
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Old 31st Mar 2021, 12:06
  #34 (permalink)  
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The crowbar in the Spitfire door was actually to rupture the landing gear hydraulic lines


Well, there you go. I never knew that. Thanks for the explanation. Cent.
Just shows one should never jump to conclusions. Reminds me of the time I attended the annual Battle of Britain display at Townsville circa 1953. Hundreds of spectators wandered around the tarmac looking up at the Lincolns and other types.
One of the flying displays was the squadron target towing Mustang A68-113 I used to fly. It was now on the tarmac with spectators allowed to climb all over it. A nubile young thing was given a leg up into the cockpit while I stood on the wing pointing out all the cockpit bits and pieces. She spotted the pilots relief tube under the seat and asked what it was for. I was too shy to tell her it was the pissaphone and instead said it was an emergency telephone . She drew it from its holder and holding it to her lips tried to talk into it before I could stop her.

Last edited by Centaurus; 31st Mar 2021 at 12:22.
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