Going North in 2021 for GA jobs? Is it worth it?
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Going North in 2021 for GA jobs? Is it worth it?
Hi everyone here,
I have made a list of general aviation charter businesses in Darwin, Broome, etc and I've even tried calling a few of them to ask the chief pilot directly but I am not getting any responses. It sounds like nobody is hiring and nobody cares to return my phone calls - I even tried 2 operators on a follow up and I am still waiting.
I am new to this and I don't want to be blacklisted for harassment but how exactly do you keep approaching these companies and charter businesses? I was planning to fly there next month but if nobody cares to even respond to a simple phone call then I wonder what is the point? Should I wait until next year or 2023?
Any advice would be so good. Thank you to everyone who direct messaged me about the other question in the other thread.
Petra
I have made a list of general aviation charter businesses in Darwin, Broome, etc and I've even tried calling a few of them to ask the chief pilot directly but I am not getting any responses. It sounds like nobody is hiring and nobody cares to return my phone calls - I even tried 2 operators on a follow up and I am still waiting.
I am new to this and I don't want to be blacklisted for harassment but how exactly do you keep approaching these companies and charter businesses? I was planning to fly there next month but if nobody cares to even respond to a simple phone call then I wonder what is the point? Should I wait until next year or 2023?
Any advice would be so good. Thank you to everyone who direct messaged me about the other question in the other thread.
Petra
Nobody from Broome, Darwin etc will return your call. It is very rare for them to even reply to you when you apply for an advertised job.
You will need to be in the right place at the right time (usually living in town) to score a job.
I must ask, what was your plan for employment as this doesn't seem to have been first choice for you.
You will need to be in the right place at the right time (usually living in town) to score a job.
I must ask, what was your plan for employment as this doesn't seem to have been first choice for you.
Many of us who are in the demographic of being the people to whom you are applying remember the time when we went north and we were the 50th pilot in town waiting for a job.
We never got hold of the CP via the phone, or even in person. We lobbed into town and found a job behind a bar and networked our way into a flying job, usually meeting the CP over a beer at an airport BBQ where one of our newly made pilot friends worked.
If you're not in town, the only time that you are likely to get any reply is if they need someone urgently now and there is no-one looking for work left in town.
You as a new CPL graduate are nothing special in the eyes of a CP. You might feel so after shelling out lots of $$, but the fact is there are many of you and the CP owes you nothing - not even 2 minutes of his/her busy time. 2 minutes replying to every one of you is a day's work.
What you have to do is make yourself stand out from the others.
How you do that is up to you.
BTW - It's still a bit early for the tourist season, but it's fast approaching.
We never got hold of the CP via the phone, or even in person. We lobbed into town and found a job behind a bar and networked our way into a flying job, usually meeting the CP over a beer at an airport BBQ where one of our newly made pilot friends worked.
If you're not in town, the only time that you are likely to get any reply is if they need someone urgently now and there is no-one looking for work left in town.
You as a new CPL graduate are nothing special in the eyes of a CP. You might feel so after shelling out lots of $$, but the fact is there are many of you and the CP owes you nothing - not even 2 minutes of his/her busy time. 2 minutes replying to every one of you is a day's work.
What you have to do is make yourself stand out from the others.
How you do that is up to you.
BTW - It's still a bit early for the tourist season, but it's fast approaching.
Last edited by compressor stall; 11th Mar 2021 at 22:37.
Oh boy Petra,
You are going to open another can of worms here ;-)
Stallie and Climb150 are correct, you need to be there. It's going to be tough for sure, it can be very demoralising, but, this is the world you have bought into.
Look for operators out of the major centres too, no one visits them, try to find somewhere that you won't be competing with pilots of more experience.
Things to have for your adventure.
DG's certificate
ATPL Subjects
Low flying approval (Station work)
MR/Mini Bus license
RSA
Working with Children
A good reliable car, or the ability to buy one
3-6 months of living expenses
A very positive attitude
Good luck, the next few years are going to sort the wheat from the chaff in the newly minted CPL ranks.
You are going to open another can of worms here ;-)
Stallie and Climb150 are correct, you need to be there. It's going to be tough for sure, it can be very demoralising, but, this is the world you have bought into.
Look for operators out of the major centres too, no one visits them, try to find somewhere that you won't be competing with pilots of more experience.
Things to have for your adventure.
DG's certificate
ATPL Subjects
Low flying approval (Station work)
MR/Mini Bus license
RSA
Working with Children
A good reliable car, or the ability to buy one
3-6 months of living expenses
A very positive attitude
Good luck, the next few years are going to sort the wheat from the chaff in the newly minted CPL ranks.
"Hey Boss. A girl called Petra rang from Melbourne about a flying job."
Boss considers his options for a moment then says, "Would you call her back and tell her I'm happy where I am. Thanks!"
Boss considers his options for a moment then says, "Would you call her back and tell her I'm happy where I am. Thanks!"
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Things to have for your adventure.
DG's certificate
ATPL Subjects
Low flying approval (Station work)
MR/Mini Bus license
RSA
Working with Children
A good reliable car, or the ability to buy one
3-6 months of living expenses
A very positive attitude
DG's certificate
ATPL Subjects
Low flying approval (Station work)
MR/Mini Bus license
RSA
Working with Children
A good reliable car, or the ability to buy one
3-6 months of living expenses
A very positive attitude
Roj has given some excellent advice.
I would also add:
Alcohol & Other Drugs training (free online course with CASA).
Senior First Aid Certificate.
What will really make you stand out is: Any Schedule 5 maintenance training - how to change a battery / tyre / spark plug / oil filter / air filter.
I would also add:
Alcohol & Other Drugs training (free online course with CASA).
Senior First Aid Certificate.
What will really make you stand out is: Any Schedule 5 maintenance training - how to change a battery / tyre / spark plug / oil filter / air filter.
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It’s just the whole: “I made a list and I even tried calling a few” to quote your own words that leaves me thinking you haven’t been adequately prepared for what’s ahead of you in terms of job readiness.
EDIT: actually, I see you’ve come to that realisation already in another thread. I didn’t post this here to shame you, but I’ll leave it up anyway as it could save another poor, unfortunate soul a lot of money before they give it to an unscrupulous flying college of university without being fully across what it takes to become a pilot.
Last edited by Stacko; 12th Mar 2021 at 09:06.
There is a reasonable amount of movements in the top end right now. The wet season was pretty full on with the ENSO and there's a lot of interstate tourism from WA / SA and a lot of territorians moving about for weekend getaways. Coffins, nurses and tourists still need flying... There's a metric duck load of pilots waiting in Darwin right now though. No CP has the time to reply to the resumes they receive by email. 1300 CPLs last financial year, think about how many emails are sent out by those graduates to their "big list of operators who's hiring mins on the website they meet". It's hard enough getting a hold of the CP when you're up here!
One of the pilots I spoke to in Kununurra about a month ago said he thinks the operator had around 10 people drop in with a resume so far. Meanwhile in Darwin I literally bumped in to another hopeful waltzing up to Air Frontier just as I left... So my advice would be to consider basing yourself in WA or even East Arnhem. There are a lot of operators out that way that will hire fresh CPLs. Also anecdotally I know another battler who recently got the first job after coming up to Darwin last wet season.
Kak Air seems to have taken on a handful of guys this season but that AOC is a but of a funny one. Dumping $4k on the GA ready course doesn't mean you get a job on the AOC. It will give you exactly what they state, i.e. 5hrs 200 series and a couple of other things. The GA Ready training program apparently fulfills their insurance requirement. That's not to say it will fill the insurance requirement for all the other GA operators up here. Anyway, chuck on From Little Things Big Things Grow and front the F up. Literally nothing will happen in terms of your flying career prospects if you sit around in Melbourne!
edit: high chance OP is a troll but jokes on you, this was a good opportunity to share some relevant info on the top end.
One of the pilots I spoke to in Kununurra about a month ago said he thinks the operator had around 10 people drop in with a resume so far. Meanwhile in Darwin I literally bumped in to another hopeful waltzing up to Air Frontier just as I left... So my advice would be to consider basing yourself in WA or even East Arnhem. There are a lot of operators out that way that will hire fresh CPLs. Also anecdotally I know another battler who recently got the first job after coming up to Darwin last wet season.
Kak Air seems to have taken on a handful of guys this season but that AOC is a but of a funny one. Dumping $4k on the GA ready course doesn't mean you get a job on the AOC. It will give you exactly what they state, i.e. 5hrs 200 series and a couple of other things. The GA Ready training program apparently fulfills their insurance requirement. That's not to say it will fill the insurance requirement for all the other GA operators up here. Anyway, chuck on From Little Things Big Things Grow and front the F up. Literally nothing will happen in terms of your flying career prospects if you sit around in Melbourne!
edit: high chance OP is a troll but jokes on you, this was a good opportunity to share some relevant info on the top end.
Last edited by Kundry; 12th Mar 2021 at 09:54.
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Petra, I owe you an apology.
In your last post, I had thought that you were a person trolling for laughs and I had made a comment as such.
Obviously that’s not the case, and you’re doing/preparing to do the hard work to get your first GA job.
Sorry.
Nevertheless, all the very best with it. Remember.. it all comes down to two things. Numbers, and ‘place and time’, so contact lots of companies.
Persistence is a good thing, and probably wont get you blacklisted! Also, take the first job that comes along with the view to upgrading later. Get that first experience, because once you have a job (as a pilot) its always easier to get the next better job; you’ll make friends/contacts in the industry and develop a good reputation if you’re a good operator.
Granted I didn’t ’go North’, as I did the instructor path. I started work as a Grade 3 instructor in 2004.. I think in the first month I only did 1.5 hours of flying. The company was dead. (Of course, no flying meant no money). I went through the company database and called everyone I could to encourage them to do some more flying lessons.
Until I was a Grade 1 instructor I had a small part-time job on the side that assisted. (Oh, and this is when I still lived at home with the parents).
Anyway, I earn $200-$250K a year now, and I reckon it was all worth it.
All the very best with that first job Petra.
In your last post, I had thought that you were a person trolling for laughs and I had made a comment as such.
Obviously that’s not the case, and you’re doing/preparing to do the hard work to get your first GA job.
Sorry.
Nevertheless, all the very best with it. Remember.. it all comes down to two things. Numbers, and ‘place and time’, so contact lots of companies.
Persistence is a good thing, and probably wont get you blacklisted! Also, take the first job that comes along with the view to upgrading later. Get that first experience, because once you have a job (as a pilot) its always easier to get the next better job; you’ll make friends/contacts in the industry and develop a good reputation if you’re a good operator.
Granted I didn’t ’go North’, as I did the instructor path. I started work as a Grade 3 instructor in 2004.. I think in the first month I only did 1.5 hours of flying. The company was dead. (Of course, no flying meant no money). I went through the company database and called everyone I could to encourage them to do some more flying lessons.
Until I was a Grade 1 instructor I had a small part-time job on the side that assisted. (Oh, and this is when I still lived at home with the parents).
Anyway, I earn $200-$250K a year now, and I reckon it was all worth it.
All the very best with that first job Petra.
Also it’s worth realising that the Chief Pilot in small GA outfits is often only there to satisfy a CASA post holder requirement. The real hiring and firing power rests with the owner or CEO. CP turnover can be quite high as they either burn out, get fed up with being the fall guy for regulatory breaches, or move on to better jobs.
This means that while you need to meet the CP at some stage (and you certainly don’t want to bypass him! ), somehow you have to get an audience with the real boss. In small towns that could quite easily be when he is having a social moment with the CP and you pull their beer or wait their table. You won’t get that opportunity unless you are on the scene.
Always have a copy of your CV in your pocket in anticipation of that ‘chance’ meeting.
Don’t expect any response from mailed-in applications. They are in the business of flying aeroplanes, not filtering dozens of unsolicited resumes and replying to each one.
As for your CV. Rather than regurgitate advice here, do some research on Pprune where you will find what an entry level pilot needs to include. A 200 hour basic CPL should fit everything relevant on one page. The operative word is ‘relevant’. Be prepared to tailor that one page to the target - there may be no point in highlighting the time you did as a museum guide in London if you are chasing a fish spotting job some place in the Gulf; whereas listing prior involvement in tourism would be relevant to a scenic flight operator.
This means that while you need to meet the CP at some stage (and you certainly don’t want to bypass him! ), somehow you have to get an audience with the real boss. In small towns that could quite easily be when he is having a social moment with the CP and you pull their beer or wait their table. You won’t get that opportunity unless you are on the scene.
Always have a copy of your CV in your pocket in anticipation of that ‘chance’ meeting.
Don’t expect any response from mailed-in applications. They are in the business of flying aeroplanes, not filtering dozens of unsolicited resumes and replying to each one.
As for your CV. Rather than regurgitate advice here, do some research on Pprune where you will find what an entry level pilot needs to include. A 200 hour basic CPL should fit everything relevant on one page. The operative word is ‘relevant’. Be prepared to tailor that one page to the target - there may be no point in highlighting the time you did as a museum guide in London if you are chasing a fish spotting job some place in the Gulf; whereas listing prior involvement in tourism would be relevant to a scenic flight operator.
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 12th Mar 2021 at 21:40.
Try pitching up Friday arvo 4:30ish with a cold 6 pack on hand. And remember it’s up north/out west, you’ll be punching way above your weight. If you can’t pull that off, maybe time for realistic reflection.
Also it’s worth realising that the Chief Pilot in small GA outfits is often only there to satisfy a CASA post holder requirement. The real hiring and firing power rests with the owner or CEO. CP turnover can be quite high as they either burn out, get fed up with being the fall guy for regulatory breaches, or move on to better jobs.
This means that while you need to meet the CP at some stage (and you certainly don’t want to bypass him! ), somehow you have to get an audience with the real boss. In small towns that could quite easily be when he is having a social moment with the CP and you pull their beer or wait their table. You won’t get that opportunity unless you are on the scene.
Always have a copy of your CV in your pocket in anticipation of that ‘chance’ meeting.
Don’t expect any response from mailed-in applications. They are in the business of flying aeroplanes, not filtering dozens of unsolicited resumes and replying to each one.
As for your CV. Rather than regurgitate advice here, do some research on Pprune where you will find what an entry level pilot needs to include. A 200 hour basic CPL should fit everything relevant on one page. The operative word is ‘relevant’. Be prepared to tailor that one page to the target - there may be no point in highlighting the time you did as a museum guide in London if you are chasing a fish spotting job some place in the Gulf; whereas listing prior involvement in tourism would be relevant to a scenic flight operator.
This means that while you need to meet the CP at some stage (and you certainly don’t want to bypass him! ), somehow you have to get an audience with the real boss. In small towns that could quite easily be when he is having a social moment with the CP and you pull their beer or wait their table. You won’t get that opportunity unless you are on the scene.
Always have a copy of your CV in your pocket in anticipation of that ‘chance’ meeting.
Don’t expect any response from mailed-in applications. They are in the business of flying aeroplanes, not filtering dozens of unsolicited resumes and replying to each one.
As for your CV. Rather than regurgitate advice here, do some research on Pprune where you will find what an entry level pilot needs to include. A 200 hour basic CPL should fit everything relevant on one page. The operative word is ‘relevant’. Be prepared to tailor that one page to the target - there may be no point in highlighting the time you did as a museum guide in London if you are chasing a fish spotting job some place in the Gulf; whereas listing prior involvement in tourism would be relevant to a scenic flight operator.
"Pitch up on a Friday with a 6 pack" ;-) those were the days.
Last edited by Roj approved; 15th Mar 2021 at 03:05. Reason: editing
You've entered what was already a tough industry for newbies getting a first gig at a time that has made it even more difficult, I'm sure you're well aware of this but it's worth starting off with that statement.
As others mentioned, your chances of getting a call or email back are practically 0, I've been a CP as a lot of others have on these forums and as someone else correctly mentioned if I'd spent 5-10mins getting back to every single resume that came through it'd be an entire day out of my week each week which is not feasible, to put it into perspective think of how many are in your cohort that graduated with you, they're all applying to the same places so that's 100-200 of them out there also wanting responses and that's JUST from your Uni, Internationals are also sending a lot of resumes too.
Now in regards to being blacklisted, don't worry about that, if you're knocking on a CPs door every single morning when they walk in you're likely to annoy them but if you're popping in once a week to just drop off a resume with the receptionist and check-in with how things are going you're going to be fine and it's expected, the best way of doing this though is to become friends with them. Even if a job wasn't involved you're in a new town so you'll want to make friends anyway! When you go in and have a chat for the first time, ask them about the area, places they recommend because these are the places they'll be, now you have some new local places to spend your time and an in to make new friends as well.
Be prepared to wait, never make a plan that assumes you'll be employed in aviation in X months, assume you're moving up there long term, not as a Pilot, and set yourself up accordingly, this way you'll be set with money/accommodation and don't need that hanging over your head.
You mentioned in another thread about a JOC and Interview Prep Courses, these are a total waste of money and whoever in your Uni is suggesting these to you deserves a proper flogging. As others have mentioned you need practical skills to get a job now, get to Darwin and arrange for a Forklift Licence, LR (Light Rigid) Licence and an H Endorsement (https://nt.gov.au/driving/industry/d...senger-vehicle), the Light Rigid allows you to drive their minibuses, the H endorsement is to do so with passengers and there's a few that use Forklifts, these three will show them that you've actually researched what is required up in the NT. If you don't already have it make sure you can drive a Manual as well. Some other helpful courses will be things like a First Aid Course which is practical for life in general, if you get a job at a Hotel/Tour Company ask about what tours you can jump on for free as this will gain knowledge of the area which is fun and practical.
If you're based in Darwin, be prepared to make the trek to Jabiru/Katherine once a month as well but give them a call every week or two in between, once again, make friends though and they'll let YOU know when the jobs come up and they'll want to put your name forward to the boss as they'd rather be working with someone they like.
If you're wondering if you should go there, I'd say GO THERE, unless you've got an Instructor Rating that you're really wanting to use at a flight school in Melbourne (Which isn't the worst idea either tbh) then there is no point in staying in Melbourne hoping to apply, I honestly can't think of anyone off the top of my head in GA for a first job that was hired based on applying to a job ad from another city. If you're thinking of flying but own a Car then don't fly, just drive up there, I've personally done the trip from Brisbane to Darwin and in reverse a few times and don't regret it and there's only about 400km difference from Melbourne to Darwin, you'll also find some smaller operators along the way so plan your route accordingly and be prepared to change all your plans if something comes up that seems promising. You really will want to have a reliable vehicle up there or a semi-reliable one you're happy looking back on with fond/angry memories sometime in the future.
Lasty, enjoy the journey, some of the worst Pilots I've ever had the displeasure to fly or work with are the ones that view GA as some kind of punishment they need to overcome to be allowed into a shiny jet somewhere. GA is an adventure, take the work seriously so you get the most out of it and enjoy all the other parts around it, it'll be demoralising from time to time but with the right attitude to the journey you'll be able to overcome that and push forward.
As others mentioned, your chances of getting a call or email back are practically 0, I've been a CP as a lot of others have on these forums and as someone else correctly mentioned if I'd spent 5-10mins getting back to every single resume that came through it'd be an entire day out of my week each week which is not feasible, to put it into perspective think of how many are in your cohort that graduated with you, they're all applying to the same places so that's 100-200 of them out there also wanting responses and that's JUST from your Uni, Internationals are also sending a lot of resumes too.
Now in regards to being blacklisted, don't worry about that, if you're knocking on a CPs door every single morning when they walk in you're likely to annoy them but if you're popping in once a week to just drop off a resume with the receptionist and check-in with how things are going you're going to be fine and it's expected, the best way of doing this though is to become friends with them. Even if a job wasn't involved you're in a new town so you'll want to make friends anyway! When you go in and have a chat for the first time, ask them about the area, places they recommend because these are the places they'll be, now you have some new local places to spend your time and an in to make new friends as well.
Be prepared to wait, never make a plan that assumes you'll be employed in aviation in X months, assume you're moving up there long term, not as a Pilot, and set yourself up accordingly, this way you'll be set with money/accommodation and don't need that hanging over your head.
You mentioned in another thread about a JOC and Interview Prep Courses, these are a total waste of money and whoever in your Uni is suggesting these to you deserves a proper flogging. As others have mentioned you need practical skills to get a job now, get to Darwin and arrange for a Forklift Licence, LR (Light Rigid) Licence and an H Endorsement (https://nt.gov.au/driving/industry/d...senger-vehicle), the Light Rigid allows you to drive their minibuses, the H endorsement is to do so with passengers and there's a few that use Forklifts, these three will show them that you've actually researched what is required up in the NT. If you don't already have it make sure you can drive a Manual as well. Some other helpful courses will be things like a First Aid Course which is practical for life in general, if you get a job at a Hotel/Tour Company ask about what tours you can jump on for free as this will gain knowledge of the area which is fun and practical.
If you're based in Darwin, be prepared to make the trek to Jabiru/Katherine once a month as well but give them a call every week or two in between, once again, make friends though and they'll let YOU know when the jobs come up and they'll want to put your name forward to the boss as they'd rather be working with someone they like.
If you're wondering if you should go there, I'd say GO THERE, unless you've got an Instructor Rating that you're really wanting to use at a flight school in Melbourne (Which isn't the worst idea either tbh) then there is no point in staying in Melbourne hoping to apply, I honestly can't think of anyone off the top of my head in GA for a first job that was hired based on applying to a job ad from another city. If you're thinking of flying but own a Car then don't fly, just drive up there, I've personally done the trip from Brisbane to Darwin and in reverse a few times and don't regret it and there's only about 400km difference from Melbourne to Darwin, you'll also find some smaller operators along the way so plan your route accordingly and be prepared to change all your plans if something comes up that seems promising. You really will want to have a reliable vehicle up there or a semi-reliable one you're happy looking back on with fond/angry memories sometime in the future.
Lasty, enjoy the journey, some of the worst Pilots I've ever had the displeasure to fly or work with are the ones that view GA as some kind of punishment they need to overcome to be allowed into a shiny jet somewhere. GA is an adventure, take the work seriously so you get the most out of it and enjoy all the other parts around it, it'll be demoralising from time to time but with the right attitude to the journey you'll be able to overcome that and push forward.