QF 2003 Cadet Pilot Program
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hmm...
No joke. The payment goes directly to the flying school, and is based solely on the flying and theory costs. A few years ago you could expect to pay 65k for a level 1, and 28k for a level 2.
Considering that if you put in the hard yards you get a job at the end - its quite a good investment!
More money then sense? Most of the cadets I know are paying the whole lot off! Many of the level 2s pay for it themselves after saving in a previous career.
HPSOV - good to see you back! Not working you hard enough eh?
Lancer
No joke. The payment goes directly to the flying school, and is based solely on the flying and theory costs. A few years ago you could expect to pay 65k for a level 1, and 28k for a level 2.
Considering that if you put in the hard yards you get a job at the end - its quite a good investment!
More money then sense? Most of the cadets I know are paying the whole lot off! Many of the level 2s pay for it themselves after saving in a previous career.
HPSOV - good to see you back! Not working you hard enough eh?
Lancer
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Considering that if you put in the hard yards you get a job at the end - its quite a good investment!
Not throwing it into a "scam" and hoping for the best!
I am sure there are a few people paying their way through the "cadetship" but judging by the amount of 18 year olds that have $75 000, the chances of their parents paying are going to high.
If you have got the money, hey why not!
Remember the aviation industry is going to rise 4% every year until 2099.......................................
You are correct in saying that QF don’t receive a cent from the cost of the cadetship.
What about the schools begging QF to pick them to be the training provider? Got to be some $$$ in that!
Last time I checked it didn't cost at least $75 000 to get:
- CPL
- M/E CIR
- ATPL
oh that's right! It's done by QF, I mean the accredited flying schools!
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"hmm..." If you dont like the idea of a cadetship then dont do one mate.
I invested my $75000 (infact it was $90000 when I did it, but that was the advertised price at the time). I've finished paying the money back (yes I borrowed it from my parents, why would I want to give the interest to a bank?).
My $90000 "investment" is now paying a very healthy return. I doubt your investment property would "grow" this much.
And I'm sure the kick-backs Qantas get are just great, all those BAE Systems pens, and free accomodation in the Hyatt on Parafield.
Maybe you should contact BAE or GFS directly and ask them how much their course costs? I think you'll find its exactly what QF is charging.
I invested my $75000 (infact it was $90000 when I did it, but that was the advertised price at the time). I've finished paying the money back (yes I borrowed it from my parents, why would I want to give the interest to a bank?).
My $90000 "investment" is now paying a very healthy return. I doubt your investment property would "grow" this much.
And I'm sure the kick-backs Qantas get are just great, all those BAE Systems pens, and free accomodation in the Hyatt on Parafield.
Maybe you should contact BAE or GFS directly and ask them how much their course costs? I think you'll find its exactly what QF is charging.
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HPSOV thanks for the reply.It seems quite clear that you were happy with the end result.
But I am interested to know:
- What was the breakdown in costs that the accredited flying school gave you?
- Was it value for money? (Apart from being offered a job with QF)
For a person interested in becoming a pilot and doesn't have a huge wad of cash, what are their options?
1) Take out a huge loan and become a cadet
2) Work their way up through the ranks as most pilots do?
It is a noted fact that some of these cadets have not even been in a small aircraft before starting the QF cadetship process!
Just a thought.....
But I am interested to know:
- What was the breakdown in costs that the accredited flying school gave you?
- Was it value for money? (Apart from being offered a job with QF)
For a person interested in becoming a pilot and doesn't have a huge wad of cash, what are their options?
1) Take out a huge loan and become a cadet
2) Work their way up through the ranks as most pilots do?
It is a noted fact that some of these cadets have not even been in a small aircraft before starting the QF cadetship process!
Just a thought.....
Join Date: Dec 2001
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Yeah I think Qantas has the intent to hire every cadet, but they have also given themselves a safety blanket just incase a crap cadet somehow got through their application process (no process is perfect).
Back in the 80s QANTAS offered cadetships where they paid the training and you had an obligation of a return of service and repay this debt from your salary. There was a minimum age (20 y.o) - I was 19. I asked to be considered but was told "Come back next year - we'll have the same offer then". That was the last year of sponsored cadetships.
I went on to get my PPL however all the doom and gloom stories made me decide to pursue a career in IT and keep the flying as a hobby. I haven't flown for a few years (usual story - marriage, mortgage, family etc) although I should be in a position to start again this year. After hearing that the maximum age for QANTAS pilots (direct entry and cadets) is gone, I might give it a go again. Or, I might get an instructor rating and instruct part time...
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Hmm,
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Was it value for money? (Apart from being offered a job
with QF)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Being offered a job with QF?..... How much more value for money can you get?????
Do the math!
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-To me, a good investment is putting my $75 000 into property and watching it grow!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your $75,000 won't return you $100 grand a year.
The percentage of students, who are successful in being selected for the cadet program but not employed by Qf, is small enough for the program not to be considered a scam I think.
Especially when you consider 60% of small business fold within the first 5 years. (australian tax office stats). So much for their $75,000. (or more). Nothing's set in concrete. Most things in life are a gamble of some kind.
Being put on by Qf after being picked for the cadet program seems like a bloody good bet actually.
cheers
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Was it value for money? (Apart from being offered a job
with QF)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Being offered a job with QF?..... How much more value for money can you get?????
Do the math!
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-To me, a good investment is putting my $75 000 into property and watching it grow!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your $75,000 won't return you $100 grand a year.
The percentage of students, who are successful in being selected for the cadet program but not employed by Qf, is small enough for the program not to be considered a scam I think.
Especially when you consider 60% of small business fold within the first 5 years. (australian tax office stats). So much for their $75,000. (or more). Nothing's set in concrete. Most things in life are a gamble of some kind.
Being put on by Qf after being picked for the cadet program seems like a bloody good bet actually.
cheers
The scheme?
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Mr Sausageman:
You make some valid points PROVIDING you pass the cadetship!
This might be but what about that small percentage that do get forgotten?
One you have already taken?
You make some valid points PROVIDING you pass the cadetship!
The percentage of students, who are successful in being selected for the cadet program but not employed by QF, is small enough for the program not to be considered a scam I think.
Especially when you consider 60% of small business fold within the first 5 years. (Australian tax office stats). So much for their $75,000. (or more).
Being put on by QF after being picked for the cadet program seems like a bloody good bet actually.
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I for one am very curious about the fact that there is no maximum age limit. The feelers I have sent out indicate that if you're over 30 you don't really have a snowballs chance and that the no-age limit is so that QF can't get taken to court (sigh, lawyers..)
Otherwise I'd feel pretty well qualified.
Otherwise I'd feel pretty well qualified.
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thearrow,
I know of at least 2 successful cadets over 30 have gone through in the last 3 years... Not sure how this compared to the age differences of those who applied - but wouldn't rule out your chances!
Lancer
I know of at least 2 successful cadets over 30 have gone through in the last 3 years... Not sure how this compared to the age differences of those who applied - but wouldn't rule out your chances!
Lancer
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Did anyone notice the change that QANTAS are planning on making to the cadet program requirements for physics??
Unfortunately they are not dropping the requirement. They have just altered it to exclude bridging courses from being acceptable for entry into the cadet program if you did not do year 12 physics. Degree level physics will be ok still.
This requirement does come into affect anyone until the 2005 intake (if the program is still running).
Bridging course physics will still acceptable for Direct Entry.
Just a friendly warning.
dcb
Unfortunately they are not dropping the requirement. They have just altered it to exclude bridging courses from being acceptable for entry into the cadet program if you did not do year 12 physics. Degree level physics will be ok still.
This requirement does come into affect anyone until the 2005 intake (if the program is still running).
Bridging course physics will still acceptable for Direct Entry.
Just a friendly warning.
dcb
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G'Day again everyone!
Sorry for the delayed response, but as hard as it may be for some people to believe I have been busy at work.
Firstly I've had a few people e-mail me asking for info regarding testing/interviews. I will post a link here for all to read that will answer all the questions. I'll thank Pprune Towers and Engage Left Autopilot on everyones behalf for their efforts in compiling this information. Remember it may not all be relevant to cadetship or direct entry, and may not be entirely up to date.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ht=Qantas+Info
I hope the link works!
Make sure you have a few hours spare to read it all!
To answer your specfic questions "hmm"
"- What was the breakdown in costs that the accredited flying school gave you?"
I really cant remember and I dont think this would be an appropriate place to post them anyway. If there is some implication in the question that some of the cost may not have been accounted for then I can assure you this was not the case.
"- Was it value for money? (Apart from being offered a job with QF)"
You can buy a coffee at Macca's for one dollar, or go to a cafe and pay six fifty. The end result? a coffee.
The same is very true of flying training.
You can pay nearly 6 figures at certain flying schools, or less than half that at others, and walk away with exactly the same licences. Does that necessarily make the more expensive option a rip-off, or bad value for money?
At the more expensive school you are paying for first class facilities. Modern, well equipped classrooms, full-time dedicated ground school instructors with real life experience in the subject they are teaching. A well structured syllabus that isn't based around Trevor Thom etc.
Modern, well maintained, well equipped aircraft. Full time engineering staff. The ability to find something such as a nick in the prop, a missing screw, a balding tyre, anything minor, and have it fixed then and there, no questions asked by anyone. The mentality that an aircraft shouldn't be run so it is just legal to fly, but one where an aircraft should be 100% all the time.
No grade 3 instructors. A formal standards system that ensures quality instruction all the time.
I could probably go on.....
But the simple answer to your question is yes, it is value for money in terms of the training. Some people may asses value for money in terms of job opportunities on completion of training, I'm in no position to make that judgement if we're disregarding Qantas for the time.
"-For a person interested in becoming a pilot and doesn't have a huge wad of cash, what are their options?
1) Take out a huge loan and become a cadet
2) Work their way up through the ranks as most pilots do?"
On option one.... Yes, why not?
People borrow money to buy a business, to do a uni course, to learn a trade. There as just as many risks associated with that "investment". If you are on a cadet course then whether or not you gain employment within Qantas is largely up to you. Show that you're mature, enthusiastic, commited and you'll be fine. However if you "enjoy" yourself too much you may falter. You will have to make sacrifices in order to achieve your best on the course, but the rewards of 12 months hard work are well worth it.
Option two.... Yes, why not?
Qantas has been hiring 100-200 pilots a year for the past 3 or 4 years, and that rate is not forecast to decrease in the foreseeable future (1-2 years). Only around 25% (approx.) of PUIT's are taken from cadet ranks. The rest are a mix of GA, Regional, AirForce, Airline etc. Missing out on, or being unable to apply for a cadetship for any reason does not preclude you from employment within Qantas.
At the end of the day you have to ask yourself that given the opportunity of doing a cadetship, would you turn it down?
To all those applying, good luck!
Once again, feel free to ask any specific questions. But I think most of what can be said has been.
HP.
Sorry for the delayed response, but as hard as it may be for some people to believe I have been busy at work.
Firstly I've had a few people e-mail me asking for info regarding testing/interviews. I will post a link here for all to read that will answer all the questions. I'll thank Pprune Towers and Engage Left Autopilot on everyones behalf for their efforts in compiling this information. Remember it may not all be relevant to cadetship or direct entry, and may not be entirely up to date.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...ht=Qantas+Info
I hope the link works!
Make sure you have a few hours spare to read it all!
To answer your specfic questions "hmm"
"- What was the breakdown in costs that the accredited flying school gave you?"
I really cant remember and I dont think this would be an appropriate place to post them anyway. If there is some implication in the question that some of the cost may not have been accounted for then I can assure you this was not the case.
"- Was it value for money? (Apart from being offered a job with QF)"
You can buy a coffee at Macca's for one dollar, or go to a cafe and pay six fifty. The end result? a coffee.
The same is very true of flying training.
You can pay nearly 6 figures at certain flying schools, or less than half that at others, and walk away with exactly the same licences. Does that necessarily make the more expensive option a rip-off, or bad value for money?
At the more expensive school you are paying for first class facilities. Modern, well equipped classrooms, full-time dedicated ground school instructors with real life experience in the subject they are teaching. A well structured syllabus that isn't based around Trevor Thom etc.
Modern, well maintained, well equipped aircraft. Full time engineering staff. The ability to find something such as a nick in the prop, a missing screw, a balding tyre, anything minor, and have it fixed then and there, no questions asked by anyone. The mentality that an aircraft shouldn't be run so it is just legal to fly, but one where an aircraft should be 100% all the time.
No grade 3 instructors. A formal standards system that ensures quality instruction all the time.
I could probably go on.....
But the simple answer to your question is yes, it is value for money in terms of the training. Some people may asses value for money in terms of job opportunities on completion of training, I'm in no position to make that judgement if we're disregarding Qantas for the time.
"-For a person interested in becoming a pilot and doesn't have a huge wad of cash, what are their options?
1) Take out a huge loan and become a cadet
2) Work their way up through the ranks as most pilots do?"
On option one.... Yes, why not?
People borrow money to buy a business, to do a uni course, to learn a trade. There as just as many risks associated with that "investment". If you are on a cadet course then whether or not you gain employment within Qantas is largely up to you. Show that you're mature, enthusiastic, commited and you'll be fine. However if you "enjoy" yourself too much you may falter. You will have to make sacrifices in order to achieve your best on the course, but the rewards of 12 months hard work are well worth it.
Option two.... Yes, why not?
Qantas has been hiring 100-200 pilots a year for the past 3 or 4 years, and that rate is not forecast to decrease in the foreseeable future (1-2 years). Only around 25% (approx.) of PUIT's are taken from cadet ranks. The rest are a mix of GA, Regional, AirForce, Airline etc. Missing out on, or being unable to apply for a cadetship for any reason does not preclude you from employment within Qantas.
At the end of the day you have to ask yourself that given the opportunity of doing a cadetship, would you turn it down?
To all those applying, good luck!
Once again, feel free to ask any specific questions. But I think most of what can be said has been.
HP.
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Good luck to all the other boys & girls applying. I put my entry in early (although not without a lot of preparation and some glowing references) and as a result got my rejection notice back early All I can think of is that the competition must be tough.
I have to say it is good of QF to make a definitive call early on so you don't sweat for weeks wondering what's going on.
All I can think of is that the competition must be tough.I have to say it is good of QF to make a definitive call early on so you don't sweat for weeks wondering what's going on.
Nunc est bibendum
Arrow, normally, QF are prepared to put anyone who meets 'minimum' standard through the system. I would think that a fast knock back like that would indicate that you may have not met the criteria in one or more regards. Have a look back throough the application form and see if you can spot it. Feel free to PM me if you want to talk about it a bit more.
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Keg,
That's always been my understanding, however the latest briefing sheet indicates that meeting minimum requirements does not guarantee progression to 'phase 2'. Tough call but I suppose as applicant numbers grow there is a need to apply more rigour early on.
That's always been my understanding, however the latest briefing sheet indicates that meeting minimum requirements does not guarantee progression to 'phase 2'. Tough call but I suppose as applicant numbers grow there is a need to apply more rigour early on.
