Cairns and "Up North"
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Cairns and "Up North"
Hi All,
I am just after some advise from those in the know!
I am a low hour guy looking to move to Cairns, with a CPL/ATPL's/CIR and around 200 hours.
Am wondering what sort of opportunities would be available etc? Any suggestions?
I am looking to travel up there shortly to check it out, pass out resumes etc as well.
I am basically after all these is to know... so if anyone can help feel free to post!
Thx
I am just after some advise from those in the know!
I am a low hour guy looking to move to Cairns, with a CPL/ATPL's/CIR and around 200 hours.
Am wondering what sort of opportunities would be available etc? Any suggestions?
I am looking to travel up there shortly to check it out, pass out resumes etc as well.
I am basically after all these is to know... so if anyone can help feel free to post!
Thx
Check Attitude
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Stormy Mate, Cairns is not the place at your level of experience. Most Cairns operators require 2,000 total and 500 multi and several CIR renewals. It is unlikely you will get into a multi under 1,000hrs aeronautical experience anywhere, although some may have an understanding ninsurance company that might let you lose with only 500 multi. You need to get to the tourist areas (WA/NT/SA/Qld Gulf Country) to get some scenic flying but the season is winding down with the wet approaching. Otherwise it's meat bombing at scores of places. It's a tough road, don't give up but your training school should have told you the truth about your actual prospects. Don't forget, you also need a DG awareness certificate for charter ops, pax or freight. Somehow you've got to get your hours up to the 500 mark before anyone can take you seriously. Mind you, in the UK you expect to get a right seat with your experience and quals, but that's the JAR world for you. You will get to where you want, you just have to work out which roads take you there and there are no shortcuts. The same comments to some degree apply also to Darwin, but 1,000 and 100 multi might see you get started there. In the meantime there are a few boy-burners just waiting for you to fly for next to nothing in some remote places. There are many previous posts on this topic, but also try the Pastoral Companies, good experience, hard work,hard life, character building flying on a cattle property.
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I have to say mainframe, that is an excellent post. It's good to see some people actually take the time out to respond properly instead of pilfering pissy, anecdotal stabs at humour, patronizing the posters concerns. Well Done.
Never say Never Stormy. It would not be impossible to get work in and around Cairns, but I feel you could be pushin s$#t up the proverbial. Good places to start with those hours are Kununurra, Broome, Maree, Darwin (to a lesser extent), maybe Fraser Island or as Mainframe suggested the Pastoral companies. Names to try include Stanbroke (QLD), Kidman (SA) and Wave Hill (WA/NT). Generally go where the tourists go or parachuting and you'll be fairly on track. Its a tough road, but sooo rewarding. Good Luck
Never say Never Stormy. It would not be impossible to get work in and around Cairns, but I feel you could be pushin s$#t up the proverbial. Good places to start with those hours are Kununurra, Broome, Maree, Darwin (to a lesser extent), maybe Fraser Island or as Mainframe suggested the Pastoral companies. Names to try include Stanbroke (QLD), Kidman (SA) and Wave Hill (WA/NT). Generally go where the tourists go or parachuting and you'll be fairly on track. Its a tough road, but sooo rewarding. Good Luck
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Just a quick note about Darwin.
A lot of the NT operators have their head office there and you need to see them to have any chance of getting a job. If they do hire you (as distinct from employing you as a casual), you will be sent bush to one of their bases.
As a casual, you may be able to stay in Darwin but you will be on the bottom of the pecking order for work - employed pilots, senior casual pilots, junior casual pilots. The result is that you will need some form of employment other than flying to survive.
You could not expect a post in Darwin until at least 12 months in the bush. The quality of the bush postings depends to a very large degree on exactly where you are posted. All of them are guaranteed to give you a lot of experience in a short time.
Good luck.
A lot of the NT operators have their head office there and you need to see them to have any chance of getting a job. If they do hire you (as distinct from employing you as a casual), you will be sent bush to one of their bases.
As a casual, you may be able to stay in Darwin but you will be on the bottom of the pecking order for work - employed pilots, senior casual pilots, junior casual pilots. The result is that you will need some form of employment other than flying to survive.
You could not expect a post in Darwin until at least 12 months in the bush. The quality of the bush postings depends to a very large degree on exactly where you are posted. All of them are guaranteed to give you a lot of experience in a short time.
Good luck.
all very good points and another thing to remember buddy is that with new insurance premiums for operators at the mo is very hard (but not impossible) to get a start with 200-300hrs) as most companies have their minimum as 500hrs at present or higher.
this goes for all companies at darwin at present apart from nac and air frontier. nac are talking about it and will soon have a 500 hour requirement i believe though frontier will still take you with 200 hrs.
so how do youget to 500?
good question, do an instructor rating or go parachuting.
a few options anyway, operators in broome and kununurra will take you with your hours.
good luck, you will need it
this goes for all companies at darwin at present apart from nac and air frontier. nac are talking about it and will soon have a 500 hour requirement i believe though frontier will still take you with 200 hrs.
so how do youget to 500?
good question, do an instructor rating or go parachuting.
a few options anyway, operators in broome and kununurra will take you with your hours.
good luck, you will need it
A similar topic was dealt with just a couple of months back. Check out The first job, What to do?
Also not a bad idea to check out the search function of D&G as this sort of scenario comes up from time to time.
The general gist of it - don't bother with Cairns or Darwin til you have 500hrs + .
Best of luck with it...it can be done.
Cheers,
TL
Also not a bad idea to check out the search function of D&G as this sort of scenario comes up from time to time.
The general gist of it - don't bother with Cairns or Darwin til you have 500hrs + .
Best of luck with it...it can be done.
Cheers,
TL
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It's a hard road sure, but it's also a great adventure.
If your looking for parachuting work try the APF there is a list of drop zones in there somewhere , you will need 200 toatal time and 10 hours on type or similar type, plenty of info on this in pprune.
The Yellow Pages is also a useful resource.
Good luck stormy
If your looking for parachuting work try the APF there is a list of drop zones in there somewhere , you will need 200 toatal time and 10 hours on type or similar type, plenty of info on this in pprune.
The Yellow Pages is also a useful resource.
Good luck stormy
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<<Mind you, in the UK you expect to get a right seat with your experience and quals, but that's the JAR world for you.>>
This is a common misconception among folks in Australia. It just does not happen like that any more. Maybe the odd 200hr guy gets lucky into the right seat of a jet, but that is very rare, and these days it is now unheard of. There are many experienced turbo prop/jet capts & f/o's still out of work, and a whole army of wannabes waiting on the call.
Please do not make the UK out as some sort of 'Pilots panacea', it is just not so, and there are many ozmates in that country fliping burgers with massive debt.
This is a common misconception among folks in Australia. It just does not happen like that any more. Maybe the odd 200hr guy gets lucky into the right seat of a jet, but that is very rare, and these days it is now unheard of. There are many experienced turbo prop/jet capts & f/o's still out of work, and a whole army of wannabes waiting on the call.
Please do not make the UK out as some sort of 'Pilots panacea', it is just not so, and there are many ozmates in that country fliping burgers with massive debt.
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Meat bombing is a good start. If you master the art of skydiving ops you can usually get work as a jump pilot anywhere. Almost all operators love to have experienced jump pilots. This helped me out as I drove around the country in search of work. Once I had settled in a location and was looking for a real flying job I would go to the jump operators and would pick up some casual work which kept me current instead of forking out hundreds of dollars that I didn't have to remain current.
At 200 hours I would suggest to stay away from the NT and Kunnunura, as every man and his dog goes up there in search of work. Wait till you get some more experience. Even at 700 hours I didn't find work up there.
Try to look for tourist spots. Scenic flights are a great way to build up the inital 500 hours. Slugging it around in a C172.
Hervey Bay Qld (Fraser Island) to name just one. I know of other places, but it wouldn't be far to name them for all to see. Do a search on the yellow pages, make hundreds of phone calls, and post of your resumes. Once you get into a scenic flying the hours never seem to come fast enough. You'll have to go out to the caravan parks, and actively promote the company your are flying for, drum up your own work.
At 200 hours you have to be able to sell yourself to your potential employer. What makes you better than the other 200 hour pilot whose resume also arrived today? Resumes are extremely important, so make sure it is set out neatly. Also attach an accompaning letter, stating what you can offer the company.
Best of luck, and keep you chin up
At 200 hours I would suggest to stay away from the NT and Kunnunura, as every man and his dog goes up there in search of work. Wait till you get some more experience. Even at 700 hours I didn't find work up there.
Try to look for tourist spots. Scenic flights are a great way to build up the inital 500 hours. Slugging it around in a C172.
Hervey Bay Qld (Fraser Island) to name just one. I know of other places, but it wouldn't be far to name them for all to see. Do a search on the yellow pages, make hundreds of phone calls, and post of your resumes. Once you get into a scenic flying the hours never seem to come fast enough. You'll have to go out to the caravan parks, and actively promote the company your are flying for, drum up your own work.
At 200 hours you have to be able to sell yourself to your potential employer. What makes you better than the other 200 hour pilot whose resume also arrived today? Resumes are extremely important, so make sure it is set out neatly. Also attach an accompaning letter, stating what you can offer the company.
Best of luck, and keep you chin up
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all good posts
about doing an instructors rating however, i got my first 500 hours with the help of a grade 3 rating then decided to try my luck "up north" specifically darwin and kununurra. to my disappointment, a lot of operators in the area didn't take my hard earned instructional time too seriously and being only a grade3 made it difficult to get instructing work too. a catch 22 situation with too much experience of the wrong sort to get into charter and not enough experience of the right sort to get into instructing. my advice, think very carefully about which road you wish to take before shelling out for an instructor's rating.
about doing an instructors rating however, i got my first 500 hours with the help of a grade 3 rating then decided to try my luck "up north" specifically darwin and kununurra. to my disappointment, a lot of operators in the area didn't take my hard earned instructional time too seriously and being only a grade3 made it difficult to get instructing work too. a catch 22 situation with too much experience of the wrong sort to get into charter and not enough experience of the right sort to get into instructing. my advice, think very carefully about which road you wish to take before shelling out for an instructor's rating.
jetage, it is a sad fact of aviation i believe that charter operators can not recognise instructing time...who are they to say well you haven't earnt those hours because you were ONLY instructing!!!!
i think that is so wrong. good point though, maybe before you do the instructor rating you do need to think of which road you are heading down, it is tough though when you come to a place like darwin and can't get a look in because you have 300 hours, how do you get to 500 hours??? there aren't too many parachute ops up this way and those that are have 4 guys sharing the 10 hours flying they might do on a typical weekend.
i think that is so wrong. good point though, maybe before you do the instructor rating you do need to think of which road you are heading down, it is tough though when you come to a place like darwin and can't get a look in because you have 300 hours, how do you get to 500 hours??? there aren't too many parachute ops up this way and those that are have 4 guys sharing the 10 hours flying they might do on a typical weekend.
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Instructor hours
GA companys have had too much previous experience with too many instructors whose flying skills didn't match their flying time.
It may have someting to do with the sanitised world most instructors are immersed in. It is nobodies fault, it just is what it is.
Topend3, GA companys do the employing and have the experience of hiring scores of new pilots. If they don't have a high regard for instructor hours, then it is probably a good indication that instructors hours are not good training for that type of work.
It may have someting to do with the sanitised world most instructors are immersed in. It is nobodies fault, it just is what it is.
Topend3, GA companys do the employing and have the experience of hiring scores of new pilots. If they don't have a high regard for instructor hours, then it is probably a good indication that instructors hours are not good training for that type of work.
Last edited by Spinnerhead; 15th Aug 2002 at 23:16.
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Don't despair its not that bad... Its worse (nah not really).
The big problem we are faced with these days are the insurance company. Employ someone with <500 and you excess doubles. So it works like this... the operator puts themselves at more financial risk. Then again I have seen many a 300 hour pilot fly a plane better than many a 700 hour pilot???
I have posted this before but basically you can never afford to give up.
The big problem we are faced with these days are the insurance company. Employ someone with <500 and you excess doubles. So it works like this... the operator puts themselves at more financial risk. Then again I have seen many a 300 hour pilot fly a plane better than many a 700 hour pilot???
I have posted this before but basically you can never afford to give up.
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Jetage,
I know where your coming from. I went to Darwin many moons ago and at the time had 1000 hours, most of it instructing, couldn't get a look in anywhere. The response from most operators was polite however they seemed less than impressed with instructing time.
My advice to the new guys is if you want to become a charter pilot head "Up North" ASAP. If you don't want to fly charter and would rather instruct, stay there for the long haul. ie Grade one, META etc.
It can be quite difficult to change from instructing to charter at a later date. Of course it isn't impossible many of us are living proof of that.
Good luck Dudes and Dudettes.
I know where your coming from. I went to Darwin many moons ago and at the time had 1000 hours, most of it instructing, couldn't get a look in anywhere. The response from most operators was polite however they seemed less than impressed with instructing time.
My advice to the new guys is if you want to become a charter pilot head "Up North" ASAP. If you don't want to fly charter and would rather instruct, stay there for the long haul. ie Grade one, META etc.
It can be quite difficult to change from instructing to charter at a later date. Of course it isn't impossible many of us are living proof of that.
Good luck Dudes and Dudettes.
Last edited by cunningham; 16th Aug 2002 at 07:18.
Excellent posts above.
To reiterate, Cairns in not a place for a low houred unemployed pilot. Reasons are many and varied, but basically all the major compnies run twins and all is IFR. Secondly, its a supply and demand thing. Experienced GA pilots want to live in Cairns, not in Lajamanu, hence the average hours on the resumes going across the CP's desk is much higher. The odd little company around (Like Daintree or Amity etc) that run singles, so certainly worth a call, but a trip to Darwin at anytime of year or Kununurra in March would be your best bet.
Good luck, do you research, be prepared and you will have the most memorable flying of your career.
To reiterate, Cairns in not a place for a low houred unemployed pilot. Reasons are many and varied, but basically all the major compnies run twins and all is IFR. Secondly, its a supply and demand thing. Experienced GA pilots want to live in Cairns, not in Lajamanu, hence the average hours on the resumes going across the CP's desk is much higher. The odd little company around (Like Daintree or Amity etc) that run singles, so certainly worth a call, but a trip to Darwin at anytime of year or Kununurra in March would be your best bet.
Good luck, do you research, be prepared and you will have the most memorable flying of your career.
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Just a random thought prompted by some of the posters on instructing hours versus charter hours.
As you are probably aware, CASA has a number of discussion papers out and about at present. One of the proposals is for a far more structured form of check and training for charter organisations. Another is that anyone doing check and training is to have instruction qualifications.
Depending on what you ultimate intentions are, you may want to consider getting an instructor's rating. If you are going to be in GA for some time, then it may well be worth the effort. If big shiny noise makers are the ultimate, then it probably wont matter.
As you are probably aware, CASA has a number of discussion papers out and about at present. One of the proposals is for a far more structured form of check and training for charter organisations. Another is that anyone doing check and training is to have instruction qualifications.
Depending on what you ultimate intentions are, you may want to consider getting an instructor's rating. If you are going to be in GA for some time, then it may well be worth the effort. If big shiny noise makers are the ultimate, then it probably wont matter.
good point plovett.
If you anticipate a career in the shiny metal, some insturcting background may be useful for a career in the heavy metal like check and training. some heavy metal drivers may like to elaborate on this.
Also, of the many "Check and Trainers" around (especially in G.A.) there would seem to be a lot of "checkers" but not too many "trainers." Maybe some instructing background would help to alleviate this.
If you anticipate a career in the shiny metal, some insturcting background may be useful for a career in the heavy metal like check and training. some heavy metal drivers may like to elaborate on this.
Also, of the many "Check and Trainers" around (especially in G.A.) there would seem to be a lot of "checkers" but not too many "trainers." Maybe some instructing background would help to alleviate this.
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Typical requirements for G.A. Company in Cairns.
10,000 hours total time
11,000 Multi
6,000 on type
7,000 IFR
4,000 Single
3,000 turbine
2,000 Jet
I you have above we have a 172 with your name on it that you can fly for 200 bucks a week!!
Why is it that Aviations companies requirements are always just that little higher than my current qualifications.
When I 200 hrs I got told I need 500, When I had 500 I got told I need 1000, When I finally reached 1000, I got told I need 100 Multi. It just goes on and on.
10,000 hours total time
11,000 Multi
6,000 on type
7,000 IFR
4,000 Single
3,000 turbine
2,000 Jet
I you have above we have a 172 with your name on it that you can fly for 200 bucks a week!!
Why is it that Aviations companies requirements are always just that little higher than my current qualifications.
When I 200 hrs I got told I need 500, When I had 500 I got told I need 1000, When I finally reached 1000, I got told I need 100 Multi. It just goes on and on.