ASIC - Surely this must be the end
And any member of societies fringe dwellers and fruitcakes could crash their loaded car or a truck through any major airports chain wire fence and be parked under the wing of a wide body aircraft that is being fuelled in less than 60 seconds. An ‘ASIC’ won’t prevent that either.
An ASIC also doesn’t stop said lunatics from purchasing and retrofitting a drone and then playing havoc on the airside of an airport. Drones in the wrong hands don't require an ASIC, they don’t need to go through body scanners and they don’t need to abide by an authority to drive airside. Fences? What fences?
The ASIC is impractical and worse than useless
A very well known and highly experienced instructor and charter pilot, retired a couple of years ago, confided to me that the initial ASIC was acquired (when first promulgated) and was used until retirement.
This person flew regularly from the base security controlled airport (SCA) to and fro to many other SCAs.
Never pulled up for wearing an expired card.
Apart from the obvious impediment to the general attraction of GA and therefore contributing to its decline, it’s meant that some outback flyers have been reluctant to service their aircraft where maintenance is, for some, within practical reach only at an SCA.
Broken Hill would likely be a good example, used to be a very busy GA airport with several dozen aircraft on tie-downs and numbers parked in and around the now non existent maintenance business. Last time there about four years ago, maybe half dozen GA aircraft.
Another unfortunate unintended consequence is that there are far fewer knowledgeable eyes at SCAs, eyes that might pick up on suspicious behaviour.
There’s been a few suggestions in this thread about how to change the ASIC to make it more palatable. I’m drawn to LB’s thoughts:-
“I’ve always been struck by the fact that many pilots are their own worst-enemy. They revel in the mystique of aviation, which merely invites more and more regulation and bureaucratic intrusion. Flying is ‘special’. We must make sure only special people - like me - can fly. People with the ‘right’ ‘background’ - like me.”
Human nature has its various qualities, ego is undoubtedly playing out here. Having been CFI and CP, including RPT, and active flying from the mid 60s, I look back and ask why should we not fly in a regulatory environment that would have similarity in risk management with other means of transport, such on our roads. I don’t agree that BFRs are necessary, and I heard today that CASA is requiring the instructor rating to qualify for Chief Pilot. The applicant, with one five pax twin and a couple of singles has been trying for three months (so far) to obtain a charter AOC, CASA keeps on coming back for rewrites. How different in the USA where there’s a practical template and minimal cost, or as it used to be here. I started with a charter licence by submitting a 12 page ops manual, no interviews and no fees paid. If Australians want to be strong in an uncertain world, and want prosperity for health and happiness then free enterprise must prevail, people vote with their money and assess risk. If we want to encourage responsibility then, at least by degrees, people must be allowed to choose.
It all comes back to politics, and few people actually engage with their representatives. Politics should be seen to be our most important skill in society and we need to grow up in this regard because all too often we denigrate politics and politicians. Maybe it’s because it’s too much like hard work to be really involved and it confronts our own behaviour in the sense of what we would be like if in the shoes of MPs.
This person flew regularly from the base security controlled airport (SCA) to and fro to many other SCAs.
Never pulled up for wearing an expired card.
Apart from the obvious impediment to the general attraction of GA and therefore contributing to its decline, it’s meant that some outback flyers have been reluctant to service their aircraft where maintenance is, for some, within practical reach only at an SCA.
Broken Hill would likely be a good example, used to be a very busy GA airport with several dozen aircraft on tie-downs and numbers parked in and around the now non existent maintenance business. Last time there about four years ago, maybe half dozen GA aircraft.
Another unfortunate unintended consequence is that there are far fewer knowledgeable eyes at SCAs, eyes that might pick up on suspicious behaviour.
There’s been a few suggestions in this thread about how to change the ASIC to make it more palatable. I’m drawn to LB’s thoughts:-
“I’ve always been struck by the fact that many pilots are their own worst-enemy. They revel in the mystique of aviation, which merely invites more and more regulation and bureaucratic intrusion. Flying is ‘special’. We must make sure only special people - like me - can fly. People with the ‘right’ ‘background’ - like me.”
Human nature has its various qualities, ego is undoubtedly playing out here. Having been CFI and CP, including RPT, and active flying from the mid 60s, I look back and ask why should we not fly in a regulatory environment that would have similarity in risk management with other means of transport, such on our roads. I don’t agree that BFRs are necessary, and I heard today that CASA is requiring the instructor rating to qualify for Chief Pilot. The applicant, with one five pax twin and a couple of singles has been trying for three months (so far) to obtain a charter AOC, CASA keeps on coming back for rewrites. How different in the USA where there’s a practical template and minimal cost, or as it used to be here. I started with a charter licence by submitting a 12 page ops manual, no interviews and no fees paid. If Australians want to be strong in an uncertain world, and want prosperity for health and happiness then free enterprise must prevail, people vote with their money and assess risk. If we want to encourage responsibility then, at least by degrees, people must be allowed to choose.
It all comes back to politics, and few people actually engage with their representatives. Politics should be seen to be our most important skill in society and we need to grow up in this regard because all too often we denigrate politics and politicians. Maybe it’s because it’s too much like hard work to be really involved and it confronts our own behaviour in the sense of what we would be like if in the shoes of MPs.
A very well known and highly experienced instructor and charter pilot, retired a couple of years ago, confided to me that the initial ASIC was acquired (when first promulgated) and was used until retirement.
This person flew regularly from the base security controlled airport (SCA) to and fro to many other SCAs.
Never pulled up for wearing an expired card.
Apart from the obvious impediment to the general attraction of GA and therefore contributing to its decline, it’s meant that some outback flyers have been reluctant to service their aircraft where maintenance is, for some, within practical reach only at an SCA.
Broken Hill would likely be a good example, used to be a very busy GA airport with several dozen aircraft on tie-downs and numbers parked in and around the now non existent maintenance business. Last time there about four years ago, maybe half dozen GA aircraft.
Another unfortunate unintended consequence is that there are far fewer knowledgeable eyes at SCAs, eyes that might pick up on suspicious behaviour.
There’s been a few suggestions in this thread about how to change the ASIC to make it more palatable. I’m drawn to LB’s thoughts:-
“I’ve always been struck by the fact that many pilots are their own worst-enemy. They revel in the mystique of aviation, which merely invites more and more regulation and bureaucratic intrusion. Flying is ‘special’. We must make sure only special people - like me - can fly. People with the ‘right’ ‘background’ - like me.”
Human nature has its various qualities, ego is undoubtedly playing out here. Having been CFI and CP, including RPT, and active flying from the mid 60s, I look back and ask why should we not fly in a regulatory environment that would have similarity in risk management with other means of transport, such on our roads. I don’t agree that BFRs are necessary, and I heard today that CASA is requiring the instructor rating to qualify for Chief Pilot. The applicant, with one five pax twin and a couple of singles has been trying for three months (so far) to obtain a charter AOC, CASA keeps on coming back for rewrites. How different in the USA where there’s a practical template and minimal cost, or as it used to be here. I started with a charter licence by submitting a 12 page ops manual, no interviews and no fees paid. If Australians want to be strong in an uncertain world, and want prosperity for health and happiness then free enterprise must prevail, people vote with their money and assess risk. If we want to encourage responsibility then, at least by degrees, people must be allowed to choose.
It all comes back to politics, and few people actually engage with their representatives. Politics should be seen to be our most important skill in society and we need to grow up in this regard because all too often we denigrate politics and politicians. Maybe it’s because it’s too much like hard work to be really involved and it confronts our own behaviour in the sense of what we would be like if in the shoes of MPs.
This person flew regularly from the base security controlled airport (SCA) to and fro to many other SCAs.
Never pulled up for wearing an expired card.
Apart from the obvious impediment to the general attraction of GA and therefore contributing to its decline, it’s meant that some outback flyers have been reluctant to service their aircraft where maintenance is, for some, within practical reach only at an SCA.
Broken Hill would likely be a good example, used to be a very busy GA airport with several dozen aircraft on tie-downs and numbers parked in and around the now non existent maintenance business. Last time there about four years ago, maybe half dozen GA aircraft.
Another unfortunate unintended consequence is that there are far fewer knowledgeable eyes at SCAs, eyes that might pick up on suspicious behaviour.
There’s been a few suggestions in this thread about how to change the ASIC to make it more palatable. I’m drawn to LB’s thoughts:-
“I’ve always been struck by the fact that many pilots are their own worst-enemy. They revel in the mystique of aviation, which merely invites more and more regulation and bureaucratic intrusion. Flying is ‘special’. We must make sure only special people - like me - can fly. People with the ‘right’ ‘background’ - like me.”
Human nature has its various qualities, ego is undoubtedly playing out here. Having been CFI and CP, including RPT, and active flying from the mid 60s, I look back and ask why should we not fly in a regulatory environment that would have similarity in risk management with other means of transport, such on our roads. I don’t agree that BFRs are necessary, and I heard today that CASA is requiring the instructor rating to qualify for Chief Pilot. The applicant, with one five pax twin and a couple of singles has been trying for three months (so far) to obtain a charter AOC, CASA keeps on coming back for rewrites. How different in the USA where there’s a practical template and minimal cost, or as it used to be here. I started with a charter licence by submitting a 12 page ops manual, no interviews and no fees paid. If Australians want to be strong in an uncertain world, and want prosperity for health and happiness then free enterprise must prevail, people vote with their money and assess risk. If we want to encourage responsibility then, at least by degrees, people must be allowed to choose.
It all comes back to politics, and few people actually engage with their representatives. Politics should be seen to be our most important skill in society and we need to grow up in this regard because all too often we denigrate politics and politicians. Maybe it’s because it’s too much like hard work to be really involved and it confronts our own behaviour in the sense of what we would be like if in the shoes of MPs.
I always thought the concept was OK but the months that it takes to get one smacks of an idea that was never executed properly.
I guess there has to be some form of filter to ensure nutters don't get onto the airside of an airport (unless they buy a ticket), but always was of the opinion it should be valid for at least 5 years. I have no idea why it was set at 2 years unless it's to align with the prison sentence of 2 years that usually precludes you from doing certain things (being ineligible to stand for the House of Representatives or the Senate under s44 of the Constitution for example) so perhaps they're worried that someone might get jailed then come out and still have a valid ASIC.
It's probably a good idea to have a refresher online training module every couple of years but make the pass valid for 5 or even 10 years. We issue Passports and Drivers Licenses for 10 years, why not an ASIC.
The argument that it won't stop someone could be used for guns also, law abiding gun owners always follow the rules - or most of the time - and make sure storage and registration, etc. etc. is correct but criminals don't apply for a firearms license if they want to shoot someone or rob a bank.
I find it more amusing that an ASIC isn't a recognised form of ID if you want to wander around a RAAF Base.. you need a driver's license for that.
In places like Williamtown, Townsville and Darwin you can theoretically wander from the commercial airport tarmac across to the RAAF tarmac get busted for not displaying correct ID.
In places like Williamtown, Townsville and Darwin you can theoretically wander from the commercial airport tarmac across to the RAAF tarmac get busted for not displaying correct ID.
I guess there has to be some form of filter to ensure nutters don't get onto the airside of an airport.
I find it more amusing that an ASIC isn't a recognised form of ID if you want to wander around a RAAF Base.. you need a driver's license for that.
In places like Williamtown, Townsville and Darwin you can theoretically wander from the commercial airport tarmac across to the RAAF tarmac get busted for not displaying correct ID.
In places like Williamtown, Townsville and Darwin you can theoretically wander from the commercial airport tarmac across to the RAAF tarmac get busted for not displaying correct ID.
Had to register with FEG the other day and the only thing I had that they would accept was a full birth certificate. Passport expired several years ago and wasn't worth renewing when Covid hit so BC was my only option as State DL not acceptable either.
On that topic: At Christmas Island a few years back (when the casino was still running) there was only a flight a day from the mainland. Having finished final checks of the fuel system back at the depot (and having checked in via Customs at the terminal earlier in the day) whilst the aircraft was refuelled, I wander across the tarmac and with a friendly wave to the ground staff join the queue to board at the bottom of the air-stairs. To say a few of the other passengers were wondering what the f*** I thought I was doing, is an understatement.. seriously, the look on their faces was priceless!!!
The look was priceless because it was from a pack of morons that love rules and regulations and have no concept of the idea of freedom or a bill of rights. The same pack of morons that think Jockovic is an evil criminal and think that Andrews kept them safe.
Unfortunately, I agree with you. Wish I didn't.. but that seems to be the world we live in. 
yet an ASIC isn't acceptable when dealing with the likes of Centrelink or other government agencies.
And as has been said before, an ASIC isn't acceptable when renewing an ASIC....gotta pull out the passport, driver's licence, birth certificate, letter from your Mum, etc that you used to get the last ASIC.
Moderator
of your full birth certificate
I needed one recently. The old one which my parents got shortly after my arrival didn't pass muster because it didn't have a current ID number on it. Had to put hand into pocket etc.
When the new one arrived, it had a few photostat items from the old one and the required new ID number on a flashier bit of paper without all the tears of the old one. Rip off ? Sure 'nuff !
I needed one recently. The old one which my parents got shortly after my arrival didn't pass muster because it didn't have a current ID number on it. Had to put hand into pocket etc.
When the new one arrived, it had a few photostat items from the old one and the required new ID number on a flashier bit of paper without all the tears of the old one. Rip off ? Sure 'nuff !
IT is a Cat C document for the ID check, provided it hasn't expired
of your full birth certificate
I needed one recently. The old one which my parents got shortly after my arrival didn't pass muster because it didn't have a current ID number on it. Had to put hand into pocket etc.
When the new one arrived, it had a few photostat items from the old one and the required new ID number on a flashier bit of paper without all the tears of the old one. Rip off ? Sure 'nuff !
I needed one recently. The old one which my parents got shortly after my arrival didn't pass muster because it didn't have a current ID number on it. Had to put hand into pocket etc.
When the new one arrived, it had a few photostat items from the old one and the required new ID number on a flashier bit of paper without all the tears of the old one. Rip off ? Sure 'nuff !
Our parents divorced when we were children. Our mother then remarried and we ‘automatically’ took on the surname of our stepfather (as was the societal ‘norm’ back then) ‘McKenzie’.
We then served in the RAAF with the surname McKenzie. He as pilot, me as a techo. Access to dangerous ADF stuff. Security clearances required. We were even posted to the same Squadron for a couple of years.
He then peeled off to civvy heavy metal and me to the legal profession. Every passport, pilot licence, driver licence, Medicare card, credit card, bank account, phone account (and in my case, every ASIC and national security clearance application as a civvy) etc, etc - All of them with the surname “McKenzie”.
Then, some latter day Sherlock Holmeses detected that the surname of our father on our birth certificates is not “McKenzie”. My brother was told that he had to go to NSW Births Deaths and Marriages to change his name to his name (we were both born in NSW). Being that he has a slightly higher tolerance level for meaningless bureaucracy than I do, he did that. And of course it made perfect sense to the bureaucrats to whom he submitted the paperwork. Congratulations bro: Your name is now your name!
However, I refused. The solution? Could I produce my marriage certificate issued by ACT Births Deaths and Marriages? Turns out I could. Turns out anyone can apply for anyone’s ACT marriage certificate online, without producing any ID. And on the basis of that document, which was obviously issued with me as hubby surname McKenzie despite what my birth certificate says, my latest ASIC was issued.
(Truth be told, my brother and I were always planning on striking a blow to the heart of western democracy, by reverting to our birth names in our 60s and then pelting the Parliament with marshmallows, rather than taking one of thousands of opportunities to destroy the place in the previous decades. But for the latter day Sherlock Holmeses having exposed us, we were nearly at the marshmallow stockpiling stage of our evil plan. You should now all sleep more soundly at night.)
Last edited by Clinton McKenzie; 20th Nov 2022 at 08:26.
Depending on the age of your full birth certificate and the state that issued it you may find that it no longer works particularly if they are trying to do an online confirmation of its validity. Had to get a new BC recently as one that previously worked no longer worked. The new one was standard A4 size with watermark but less information than the original issued in South Australia. It also had different registration numbers.
I find it more amusing that an ASIC isn't a recognised form of ID if you want to wander around a RAAF Base.. you need a driver's license for that.
In places like Williamtown, Townsville and Darwin you can theoretically wander from the commercial airport tarmac across to the RAAF tarmac get busted for not displaying correct ID.
In places like Williamtown, Townsville and Darwin you can theoretically wander from the commercial airport tarmac across to the RAAF tarmac get busted for not displaying correct ID.
I'm sure it'd be stricter elsewhere, I mean, it's not like they had F-111s or F/A-18s based at Pt. Cook or classified equipment. I'm pretty sure they don't even have guns or other weapons there.
Things have changed there these days, there’s a lot more going on.
