ASIC - Surely this must be the end
there's no reason for CASA to dictate those security requirements to every airport in the country
Last edited by Traffic_Is_Er_Was; 2nd Apr 2020 at 08:19.
(anyone can get a card printed and laminated from the internet)
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In 2020, it is not technically difficult to reproduce an ASIC card.
ID Card reproduction technology is universal, so its naive to think that a "lookalike" ASIC card can't be created complete with hologram.
ID Card reproduction technology is universal, so its naive to think that a "lookalike" ASIC card can't be created complete with hologram.
Ssshhhhhhh!
And don’t say, out loud, how few times anyone’s looked closely at your ASIC, even assuming you’ve displayed it.
It would reveal the system for what it is.
And don’t say, out loud, how few times anyone’s looked closely at your ASIC, even assuming you’ve displayed it.
It would reveal the system for what it is.
I'm certainly not naive enough to think that the cards cannot be forged. I guess they make it difficult enough to deter muggins from having a go at home with his inkjet. If someone goes to the expense and trouble of either buying the equipment to print their own, or buying a forgery on line, then they are probably not the type of person you want airside anyway.
I guess it establishes a base line. If no one is wearing anything, how do you know who should be there?. A lot of places these days require people/staff on their premises to display an ID card of some sort. An ASIC is not the be all and end all either. It is just one part of the overall security system. Just because you have one, it doesn't mean you can go wherever or do whatever you want. It is only an ID card after all. It just signifies you have undergone a standardised check.
I guess it establishes a base line. If no one is wearing anything, how do you know who should be there?. A lot of places these days require people/staff on their premises to display an ID card of some sort. An ASIC is not the be all and end all either. It is just one part of the overall security system. Just because you have one, it doesn't mean you can go wherever or do whatever you want. It is only an ID card after all. It just signifies you have undergone a standardised check.
A decent copy would be hard to spot as a fake unless you stuck it under someone official’s nose.
A metro authorised officer told me recently that heaps of people on the train in Melbourne use fake photo copied police ID’s for free travel and they don’t usually say anything because they don’t want to accuse someone accidentally if they are actually legitimate and cause a scene.
A metro authorised officer told me recently that heaps of people on the train in Melbourne use fake photo copied police ID’s for free travel and they don’t usually say anything because they don’t want to accuse someone accidentally if they are actually legitimate and cause a scene.
Sprocket Check
I dunno who the hell taught you to fly but this is Crazy talk.
The end of ASIC?
A wise man, who fled communist Checkoslavakia, told me that modern Australia is a worst police state than what he fled in the 1970s.
...that was 15 years ago!
Send me a text or a PM and I will put you in touch with that guy.
I dunno who the hell taught you to fly but this is Crazy talk.
The end of ASIC?
A wise man, who fled communist Checkoslavakia, told me that modern Australia is a worst police state than what he fled in the 1970s.
...that was 15 years ago!
Send me a text or a PM and I will put you in touch with that guy.
Leaf Blower.....If you belive that are you interested in bridge sales at all ?
I suggest you get hold of the book by American author James Michener. "The Bridge at Andau " for a bit of backgrounding of that once communist State. Has that modern State regressed that badly ?
Is Australai really worse ?.
While I accept that we do live in an authoritarian democracy, and there are many rotten things happening in the State of Oz, no country is the perfect Shangri La.
Citizens of this country should take the time to think a bit about the future ,tho
"Those that give up essential rights and liberties for a bit of temporary security, deserve neither," B Franklin.
This is why CAsA and ASIC and other stupidities need addressing.
I suggest you get hold of the book by American author James Michener. "The Bridge at Andau " for a bit of backgrounding of that once communist State. Has that modern State regressed that badly ?
Is Australai really worse ?.
While I accept that we do live in an authoritarian democracy, and there are many rotten things happening in the State of Oz, no country is the perfect Shangri La.
Citizens of this country should take the time to think a bit about the future ,tho
"Those that give up essential rights and liberties for a bit of temporary security, deserve neither," B Franklin.
This is why CAsA and ASIC and other stupidities need addressing.
The opportunity for licence holders, (i.e. pilots and LAMEs) to engage in some gentle civil disobedience has sadly been lost.
If - when aviation was booming - there had been an organised week where every licence holder turned up for work with a passport (for the photo) and a professional licence (for validation of occupation) while leaving their ASIC at home, it could have forced the authorities to capitulate on the requirement for certain sectors of the aviation industry to hold an ASIC.
The authorities' climb down face-saver could have been to link licences to police records, Kiwi style.
But now the aviation industry is trashed anyway, civil disobedience or industrial action won't work. In lean times history shows that there are always those willing to comply with whatever onerous hurdles are put in the way to put food on the table. When we come out the other side of this current pandemic, expect more, not fewer, limitations to our freedoms dreamed up by Big Brother - for our own good, of course.
If - when aviation was booming - there had been an organised week where every licence holder turned up for work with a passport (for the photo) and a professional licence (for validation of occupation) while leaving their ASIC at home, it could have forced the authorities to capitulate on the requirement for certain sectors of the aviation industry to hold an ASIC.
The authorities' climb down face-saver could have been to link licences to police records, Kiwi style.
But now the aviation industry is trashed anyway, civil disobedience or industrial action won't work. In lean times history shows that there are always those willing to comply with whatever onerous hurdles are put in the way to put food on the table. When we come out the other side of this current pandemic, expect more, not fewer, limitations to our freedoms dreamed up by Big Brother - for our own good, of course.
"Correctly worn ASIC's"
In the beginning the problem was that terrorists could access an airport with the post 9/11 hysteria. The solution to that apparently was to bring in a new ID card that everyone who worked on an airport needed to get very 2 years. The terrorists would not be able to get one, and so that of course been an unsurmountable barrier to those of criminal intent. Nothing much has happened since other than tens of thousands of hours wasted by people who need to work at an airport. For those that would argue that an ASIC card has prevented anyone with criminal intentions being able to access an aircraft, spare me. Besides how easy it would be to mock one up, airports are often not well fenced or patrolled in early mornings. Plus easy to get a job as a baggage handler, cleaner and an so get an ASIC for those without a prior criminal record)
So now because things are quiet and people need to justify their job, especially ARO's as they really have bugger all to do at many airports, the "crime" is not to be without an ASIC airside, but to be not wearing one correctly. So much so that a firefighter at Ballina was reportedly either fined $5000 or threatened with one (not sure) for not wearing their ASIC correctly by the ARO. What ARO in their right mind could possible think they are doing anything constructive by pinging an airport firefighter for not wearing an ASIC card correctly? It certainly won't help the firefighters attitude, it wont save any lives, its just being a bloody nuisance. ARO's are sure developing a reputation.
To pre-empt the "well he/she could have been an imposter" reply...wouldn't asking to see the ASIC be enough? Does it really need a fine because it is not displayed in the correct manner? Personally i have kept mine in my wallet as i have found it dangling around my head when inspecting underwings etc and this is distracting. Also had a lanyard break and it fall out. So a FOD hazard as well as a security hazard. If anyone wanted to see it, it is right there. The one time i have been asked, by a Fed, they were fine with me pulling it out.
Not good enough now apparently. There is an "alert" that the "Cyber and Infrastructure Security Centre" (can you just imagine the pointy heads in Canberra there dreaming up new embuggerances every day) has commenced targeted and increased surveillance" of incorrectly worn ASIC cards. I wonder if there will ever be any pushback against this bureaucratic madness. How good would it be if just for once a change came out that actually made things easier for those working at airports. eg...ASIC for 5 years, or a passport instead of a birth certificate as ID, or a note from employer with reason to be on airport, or god forbid no ASIC but just a plausible reason to be airside and a valid ID.
So now because things are quiet and people need to justify their job, especially ARO's as they really have bugger all to do at many airports, the "crime" is not to be without an ASIC airside, but to be not wearing one correctly. So much so that a firefighter at Ballina was reportedly either fined $5000 or threatened with one (not sure) for not wearing their ASIC correctly by the ARO. What ARO in their right mind could possible think they are doing anything constructive by pinging an airport firefighter for not wearing an ASIC card correctly? It certainly won't help the firefighters attitude, it wont save any lives, its just being a bloody nuisance. ARO's are sure developing a reputation.
To pre-empt the "well he/she could have been an imposter" reply...wouldn't asking to see the ASIC be enough? Does it really need a fine because it is not displayed in the correct manner? Personally i have kept mine in my wallet as i have found it dangling around my head when inspecting underwings etc and this is distracting. Also had a lanyard break and it fall out. So a FOD hazard as well as a security hazard. If anyone wanted to see it, it is right there. The one time i have been asked, by a Fed, they were fine with me pulling it out.
Not good enough now apparently. There is an "alert" that the "Cyber and Infrastructure Security Centre" (can you just imagine the pointy heads in Canberra there dreaming up new embuggerances every day) has commenced targeted and increased surveillance" of incorrectly worn ASIC cards. I wonder if there will ever be any pushback against this bureaucratic madness. How good would it be if just for once a change came out that actually made things easier for those working at airports. eg...ASIC for 5 years, or a passport instead of a birth certificate as ID, or a note from employer with reason to be on airport, or god forbid no ASIC but just a plausible reason to be airside and a valid ID.
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Have to agree, the ASIC is bull****. But in response to your comment, an ARO can’t fine a non-ASIC holder, only AMS can do that. And they have been doing that for a couple of years now, it’s nothing new. The big issue is that if you get pinged by AMS for not wearing your ASIC, apart from you receiving the individual fine, the aerodrome owner/operator also gets hit with a non-conformance notice as it occurred on their aerodrome. That’s why ARO’s are often so trigger happy when it comes to reprimanding a person who is operating airside without an ASIC (depending on your category of aerodrome).
As with all things Government, the requirement for an ASIC does very little towards preventing fraud, preventing unauthorised access via a step ladder over the fence at midnight, or stop people using a fake ASIC. It’s just another tool for big brother to use to monitor you, curtail your freedoms, and let you know that it is not you who is in charge, it is they. No ‘terrorist’ is going to apply for an ASIC under their real identity (therefor getting caught before they commit an act of terror), nor will they obey regulations, comply with silly signs on aerodrome fences or any other primitive Government folly. I would be more concerned with the amount of ‘missing’ surface-to-air missiles worldwide, and the damage they could do to an aircraft approaching or departing an aerodrome on the fringes of a city or beside a nice wide ocean or river system.
As with all things Government, the requirement for an ASIC does very little towards preventing fraud, preventing unauthorised access via a step ladder over the fence at midnight, or stop people using a fake ASIC. It’s just another tool for big brother to use to monitor you, curtail your freedoms, and let you know that it is not you who is in charge, it is they. No ‘terrorist’ is going to apply for an ASIC under their real identity (therefor getting caught before they commit an act of terror), nor will they obey regulations, comply with silly signs on aerodrome fences or any other primitive Government folly. I would be more concerned with the amount of ‘missing’ surface-to-air missiles worldwide, and the damage they could do to an aircraft approaching or departing an aerodrome on the fringes of a city or beside a nice wide ocean or river system.
No ‘terrorist’ is going to apply for an ASIC under their real identity (therefor getting caught before they commit an act of terror), nor will they obey regulations, comply with silly signs on aerodrome fences or any other primitive Government folly. I would be more concerned with the amount of ‘missing’ surface-to-air missiles worldwide, and the damage they could do to an aircraft approaching or departing an aerodrome on the fringes of a city or beside a nice wide ocean or river system.
The department (and therefore Minister) administering the ASIC and MSIC legislation recently changed from Infrastructure and Transport etc to Home Affairs. The “Cyber and Infrastructure Security Centre” is part of Home Affairs.
The Secretary of the Department of Home Affairs has been slowly building his own para-military force and accruing ever-more powers as he has been thwarted (so far) in his aspirations to be the Secretary of Defence. The Australian Border Force has its own internal system of medals and now gives more of them out than the Australian Defence Force does each year.
If you think the invocation of “safety” by CASA as a justification for its intrusion, restriction and destruction is wearing a little thin, wait until the Secretary of Home Affair’s sycophants get going on actions in the name of transport “security”. I’m guessing that the ‘alert’ to which extralite referred is a mere taste of an increase in the insults to our intelligence and integrity to come.
So don’t plan on celebrating the demise of the ASIC any time soon.
Pilots are just collateral damage in the response to the real current problem: Porous borders, now exacerbated by, for example, a baggage handling workforce which is in a state of constant flux. Some of the organisations issuing ASICs have a bit of a conflict of interest: They need as many warm bodies as they can get, doing work airside to keep the airports and airlines up and running again. Spotting the bikie associate (with no criminal history) in amongst the much-needed casual workforce can be difficult and inconvenient.
I just can’t wait for the “Cyber and Infrastructure Security Centre” to find out that when I and thousands of other pilots fly into somewhere important, Air Traffic Control does not know our identity, doesn’t know if we hold a pilot’s licence, doesn’t know if we hold an ASIC, doesn’t know if the aircraft we’re flying has an airworthiness certificate, doesn’t know if we are using the correct callsign and doesn’t know what we are carrying on board.
I shake my head and marvel at our capacity to create ever-more complexity and costs that inconvenience only the law-abiding, each time I fly over Commonwealth Parliament House or downwind over what is the Prime Minister’s or Governor-General’s or MINDEF’s or some other important person’s aircraft on the tarmac at 34SQN, knowing that an actual terrorist could actually announce his or her arrival at Black Mountain tower and intentions to do something nasty, and nobody could do anything practical to stop that happening or get anyone ‘out of the way’ of the damage about to be done. They could turn YSCB into a Romeo and ‘ban’ any aircraft other than State aircraft from entry, and it would make no difference to the actual risk (unless, I suppose, they mounted anti-aircraft weapons on various of the hills around YSCB and were ready and willing to use them immediately some unknown aircraft entered the Romeo - just like Pearl Harbour in '42).
What on Earth have we become?
The Secretary of the Department of Home Affairs has been slowly building his own para-military force and accruing ever-more powers as he has been thwarted (so far) in his aspirations to be the Secretary of Defence. The Australian Border Force has its own internal system of medals and now gives more of them out than the Australian Defence Force does each year.
If you think the invocation of “safety” by CASA as a justification for its intrusion, restriction and destruction is wearing a little thin, wait until the Secretary of Home Affair’s sycophants get going on actions in the name of transport “security”. I’m guessing that the ‘alert’ to which extralite referred is a mere taste of an increase in the insults to our intelligence and integrity to come.
So don’t plan on celebrating the demise of the ASIC any time soon.
Pilots are just collateral damage in the response to the real current problem: Porous borders, now exacerbated by, for example, a baggage handling workforce which is in a state of constant flux. Some of the organisations issuing ASICs have a bit of a conflict of interest: They need as many warm bodies as they can get, doing work airside to keep the airports and airlines up and running again. Spotting the bikie associate (with no criminal history) in amongst the much-needed casual workforce can be difficult and inconvenient.
I just can’t wait for the “Cyber and Infrastructure Security Centre” to find out that when I and thousands of other pilots fly into somewhere important, Air Traffic Control does not know our identity, doesn’t know if we hold a pilot’s licence, doesn’t know if we hold an ASIC, doesn’t know if the aircraft we’re flying has an airworthiness certificate, doesn’t know if we are using the correct callsign and doesn’t know what we are carrying on board.
I shake my head and marvel at our capacity to create ever-more complexity and costs that inconvenience only the law-abiding, each time I fly over Commonwealth Parliament House or downwind over what is the Prime Minister’s or Governor-General’s or MINDEF’s or some other important person’s aircraft on the tarmac at 34SQN, knowing that an actual terrorist could actually announce his or her arrival at Black Mountain tower and intentions to do something nasty, and nobody could do anything practical to stop that happening or get anyone ‘out of the way’ of the damage about to be done. They could turn YSCB into a Romeo and ‘ban’ any aircraft other than State aircraft from entry, and it would make no difference to the actual risk (unless, I suppose, they mounted anti-aircraft weapons on various of the hills around YSCB and were ready and willing to use them immediately some unknown aircraft entered the Romeo - just like Pearl Harbour in '42).
What on Earth have we become?
GA is a very large thorn in the side of any government hell bent on total control. Can't have the plebs with a form of transport that's free and unconstrained. How do we tax it, police it, and manage the terrible threats it poses? I mean one of those Cessna things could possibly fly over our barricades we installed to stop all the car/truck/bus terrorists out there... so what if a truck can do 100 times more damage and simply be stolen from anywhere, or just borrowed from a mate. Now we have 'airlock' security doors coming for airliners, that since 9/11 more lives have been lost to those locked in the nose than terrorists.
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And any member of societies fringe dwellers and fruitcakes could crash their loaded car or a truck through any major airports chain wire fence and be parked under the wing of a wide body aircraft that is being fuelled in less than 60 seconds. An ‘ASIC’ won’t prevent that either. An ASIC also doesn’t stop said lunatics from purchasing and retrofitting a drone and then playing havoc on the airside of an airport. Drones in the wrong hands don't require an ASIC, they don’t need to go through body scanners and they don’t need to abide by an authority to drive airside. Fences? What fences?
Here we are in 2022, it’s a brave new world, a changed world, yet AMS still insist on ASIC’s and CASA still insist that it is illegal for a Cessna pilot to change a $0.20 bulb on his aircraft. Regulation by stealth, regulation by incompetence, regulation by stupidity. The alphabet agencies are outdated and irrelevant.
Here we are in 2022, it’s a brave new world, a changed world, yet AMS still insist on ASIC’s and CASA still insist that it is illegal for a Cessna pilot to change a $0.20 bulb on his aircraft. Regulation by stealth, regulation by incompetence, regulation by stupidity. The alphabet agencies are outdated and irrelevant.
Here we are in 2022, it’s a brave new world, a changed world, yet AMS still insist on ASIC’s and CASA still insist that it is illegal for a Cessna pilot to change a $0.20 bulb on his aircraft. Regulation by stealth, regulation by incompetence, regulation by stupidity. The alphabet agencies are outdated and irrelevant.
11. Replacement of bulbs, reflectors, glasses, lenses or lights.
Have to laugh though that the millions spent on security fences around airports and kangaroos and foxes still make it in and 'terrorise' aircraft. Guess they think the average criminal is less intelligent than a roo... Can't even stop large wildlife strikes at airports, and they are not even trying to harm anything. Billions squandered on fences and facade security. Then don't even get started on the billions being spent on edge barriers on roads, where one state proclaimed 1000s saved per year, except the road toll per year was never that high, and has barely changed since the implementation.
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I don't believe the ASIC serves any purpose at all. The Airline Identification Card or Photo Licence is just as effective. If an ASIC, those that require one shouldn't have to pay for it.
The sad reality is that while all those things are a deterrent, it is very unlikely a 9/11 style terrorist attack will come from the Airline Industry again, why because it's been done already. We won't see the next one coming the same as we didn't see the last one, it will most likely come from Ambulances or Fire Trucks, the confusion and urgency of all those lights and sirens, we'll just open the gates for them. The target will be major like the AFL Grand Final. That is how terrorism works.
The sad reality is that while all those things are a deterrent, it is very unlikely a 9/11 style terrorist attack will come from the Airline Industry again, why because it's been done already. We won't see the next one coming the same as we didn't see the last one, it will most likely come from Ambulances or Fire Trucks, the confusion and urgency of all those lights and sirens, we'll just open the gates for them. The target will be major like the AFL Grand Final. That is how terrorism works.