Runway Performance Sydney
Thread Starter
Runway Performance Sydney
The thread on the F100 over run in Newman got me thinking about the Notams in Sydney that have been there for
a long time now. If I had to guess I’d say over 18 months.
Firstly, can anyone here accurately decode them for the benefit of us all?
I understand where the areas of low friction are located on the runway, and that the minimum
value is 0.43 but the way the other numbers are presented could be better.
Secondly, can anyone here shed light on why the situation isn’t remedied? It appears the low friction
areas are in the touchdown zones and that suggests rubber to me but if so, surely the notam wouldn’t
have stuck with us for so long?
Thirdly, with 2207m of landing distance on 16L and 400m of that below minimum friction level, are we
asking for another over-run?
a long time now. If I had to guess I’d say over 18 months.
Firstly, can anyone here accurately decode them for the benefit of us all?
I understand where the areas of low friction are located on the runway, and that the minimum
value is 0.43 but the way the other numbers are presented could be better.
Secondly, can anyone here shed light on why the situation isn’t remedied? It appears the low friction
areas are in the touchdown zones and that suggests rubber to me but if so, surely the notam wouldn’t
have stuck with us for so long?
Thirdly, with 2207m of landing distance on 16L and 400m of that below minimum friction level, are we
asking for another over-run?
YMMM/QMRXX/IV/NBO/A/000/999/3357S15111E005
A) YSSY
B) 1912171921 C) 2001151900 EST
E) RWY 34R LOW FRICTION VALUE
AVERAGE VALUE 0.23, 0.36 AND 0.41
0.41 BLW MINIMUM VALUE 0.43 LOCATED 3M WESTERN SIDE
OF CL BTN 350M-562M FM RWY 34R START OF TAKEOFF
H6218/19 NOTAMR H6177/19
Q) YMMM/QMRXX/IV/NBO/A/000/999/3357S15111E005
A) YSSY
B) 1912171918 C) 2001151900 EST
E) RWY 16L LOW FRICTION VALUE
AVERAGE VALUE 0.24, 0.29 AND 0.31 BLW MINIMUM VALUE 0.43
LOCATED 3M EITHER SIDE OF RUNWAY CENTRELINE
BTN 500M-700M FM RWY 16L START OF TAKEOFF
A) YSSY
B) 1912171921 C) 2001151900 EST
E) RWY 34R LOW FRICTION VALUE
AVERAGE VALUE 0.23, 0.36 AND 0.41
0.41 BLW MINIMUM VALUE 0.43 LOCATED 3M WESTERN SIDE
OF CL BTN 350M-562M FM RWY 34R START OF TAKEOFF
H6218/19 NOTAMR H6177/19
Q) YMMM/QMRXX/IV/NBO/A/000/999/3357S15111E005
A) YSSY
B) 1912171918 C) 2001151900 EST
E) RWY 16L LOW FRICTION VALUE
AVERAGE VALUE 0.24, 0.29 AND 0.31 BLW MINIMUM VALUE 0.43
LOCATED 3M EITHER SIDE OF RUNWAY CENTRELINE
BTN 500M-700M FM RWY 16L START OF TAKEOFF
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If you can tell the difference between 0.43 and 0.39 Coefficient on landing then NASA is interested to hear from you. This has to be the dumbest NOTAM i've seen issued in Sydney in 20 years. Whoever wrote it should be loaded into a canon and fired into the sun.
I'm yet to meet someone who can show me where in Flysmart or the Boeing equivalent one can even input these variables and ranges for the purposes of performance calculations.
Keep in mind this NOTAM is issued by the same genius department that kept the "don't land on the grass" Notam active for 11 months!!
I'm yet to meet someone who can show me where in Flysmart or the Boeing equivalent one can even input these variables and ranges for the purposes of performance calculations.
Keep in mind this NOTAM is issued by the same genius department that kept the "don't land on the grass" Notam active for 11 months!!
The thread on the F100 over run in Newman got me thinking about the Notams in Sydney that have been there for
a long time now. If I had to guess I’d say over 18 months.
Firstly, can anyone here accurately decode them for the benefit of us all?
I understand where the areas of low friction are located on the runway, and that the minimum
value is 0.43 but the way the other numbers are presented could be better.
Secondly, can anyone here shed light on why the situation isn’t remedied? It appears the low friction
areas are in the touchdown zones and that suggests rubber to me but if so, surely the notam wouldn’t
have stuck with us for so long?
Thirdly, with 2207m of landing distance on 16L and 400m of that below minimum friction level, are we
asking for another over-run?
a long time now. If I had to guess I’d say over 18 months.
Firstly, can anyone here accurately decode them for the benefit of us all?
I understand where the areas of low friction are located on the runway, and that the minimum
value is 0.43 but the way the other numbers are presented could be better.
Secondly, can anyone here shed light on why the situation isn’t remedied? It appears the low friction
areas are in the touchdown zones and that suggests rubber to me but if so, surely the notam wouldn’t
have stuck with us for so long?
Thirdly, with 2207m of landing distance on 16L and 400m of that below minimum friction level, are we
asking for another over-run?
Most airlines use these policies in order to determine braking capability.
Runway Condition Assessment Matrix is the go to table for both takeoff and landing. It’s been proven to be far more reliable in determining braking effectiveness being used by both Boeing and Airbus. Well worth a read and used by Qf but I’m not sure about Virgin.
https://www.icao.int/SAM/Documents/2...ackground).pdf
https://www.icao.int/Meetings/grf201...019_S3_FAA.PDF
Thread Starter
Thank you.
I understand the RCAM but have made an assumption ( rightly or wrongly) that the RCAM itself is predicated on a minimum runway surface standard. I have also assumed that the minimum runway surface friction value is 0.43 under current regulations and that it isn’t being achieved as per the Notam.
Thoughts?
I understand the RCAM but have made an assumption ( rightly or wrongly) that the RCAM itself is predicated on a minimum runway surface standard. I have also assumed that the minimum runway surface friction value is 0.43 under current regulations and that it isn’t being achieved as per the Notam.
Thoughts?
Get the grooving machine onto the runway to clean the accumulated rubber deposits out! Don’t SACL do regular maintenance on the runways? They are legally obligated to by virtue of CASR 139.
Quite a long time to have a NOTAM of this nature in force, particularly at Australia’s busiest aerodrome.
Quite a long time to have a NOTAM of this nature in force, particularly at Australia’s busiest aerodrome.
Last edited by Duck Pilot; 13th Jan 2020 at 00:25.
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Get the grooving machine onto the runway to clean the accumulated rubber deposits out! Don’t SACL do regular maintenance on the runways? They are legally obligated to by virtue of CASR 139.
Quite a a long time to have a NOTAM of this nature in force, particularly at Australia’s busiest aerodrome.
Quite a a long time to have a NOTAM of this nature in force, particularly at Australia’s busiest aerodrome.
There is a far quicker return on investment from a sweated privatised asset in building carparks and shopping experiences than actually running an airport.
With respect to the CASR, you would be assuming the regulator is actually there to regulate.
Thread Starter
Quite a long time to have a NOTAM of this nature in force, particularly at Australia’s busiest aerodrome.
