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Box Hill TAFE drops Aviation Diploma

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Box Hill TAFE drops Aviation Diploma

Old 8th Jan 2020, 08:55
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Box Hill TAFE drops Aviation Diploma

Does anyone have a copy of the article in the Australian they can send me please?

kaz at gvclc. Org. Au

thank you.
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Old 8th Jan 2020, 10:06
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Australia’s biggest recipient of taxpayer-funded student loans for trainee pilots has been stripped of its authority to offer aviation courses, leaving 400 students in the lurch.

Box Hill Institute was audited by the Australian Skills Quality Authority last year following a raft of complaints from students about course delivery and a very low graduation rate.

ASQA is the overseeing authority for VET student loans.

After the audit, flight training provided by Soar Aviation was suspended for a week and students informed of possible minor changes to their courses.

But in a letter distributed to students of Box Hill on Tuesday, aviation manager Adrian Lea said as a result of a decision by ASQA, the institute was no longer authorised to deliver the diploma of aviation from January 30.

“We understand this will be disappointing for you and we are urgently clarifying the ramifications of ASQA’s decision for our aviation students,” Mr Lea wrote.

“We are investigating seeking a reconsideration of the decision by ASQA however it is unclear whether such a request would be successful. In any case, the fact remains that the Diploma of Aviation (including its individual clusters) needs to be discontinued with effect from January 30, 2020.”

He went on to say that it was his “strong recommendation that students did not incur any further costs or fees in relation to enrolled units”, such as further flight training.

Department of Employment statistics for the six months to June 30, 2019, showed more than $7m worth of loans had been paid for 289 enrolments in the commercial pilot licence course at Box Hill.

In 2018, more than $11m in loans was paid for 402 enrolments, but only six students graduated.

A statement from Soar Aviation said its board “strongly refuted the findings of ASQA and the decision to revoke Box Hill Institute’s approval to provide third party practical training in conjunction with Soar Aviation.

“Many of ASQA’s conclusions are based on errors of fact and Soar Aviation is considering the appropriate avenues to maintain its registration,” the statement said.

“Soar Aviation and Box Hill Institute recently reviewed all procedures that are performed under Commercial Pilot Licence aviation training to ensure they comply with all relevant Civil Aviation legislation.”

The statement went to say 70 people had obtainted their Diploma of Aviation under the Box Hill program.

“A further 400 students are enrolled and part way through their course. We will do everything we can to ensure they have the opportunity to complete their training and successfully gain their qualifications.”

Soar Aviation and Box Hill Institute came under renewed scrutiny late last year after the second serious plane crash in 14-months.

On December 12, 2019, a student conducting a solo training flight was seriously injured when his Bristell S-LSA crashed during a “touch and go” manoeuvre at Moorabbin Airport.

On October 5, 2018, another student was left a paraplegic and his trainer injured when their training flight in a Bristell S-LSA went wrong near Stawell in Victoria.

Both incidents remain the subject of Australian Transport Safety Bureau investigations.

Mr Lea’s letter to students said Box Hill would do its best to support them through this period and navigate available options.



Robyn Ironside
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Old 8th Jan 2020, 10:38
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Thanks Clare 😊
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Old 8th Jan 2020, 14:48
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Cheap Bristell anyone? Foxbat perhaps? (Not certified for incipient spins)
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Old 8th Jan 2020, 16:58
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Originally Posted by The name is Porter View Post
Cheap Bristell anyone? Foxbat perhaps? (Not certified for incipient spins)
Sure, if the new paint job is on the house.
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Old 8th Jan 2020, 22:09
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I’ll take one of the Tecnams please. No repaint required.
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Old 8th Jan 2020, 22:24
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I think I see a class action on the horizon. Box Hill will wear it because the other party will have taken their money and run.

‘For me the question remains: why was this school not identified and nailed by CASA and the far better school APTA targeted and destroyed instead?
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 00:06
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Sunny... dont you know...its all about their/CAsA's perception of the 'mystique of air safety'
And of course if you argue with them,or have a difference of personalities....LOOK OUT !!!
Their power is outrageous, unfettered and downright disgusting.
eg ...on a survey job the CPL at 3500 was seeking clearance to climb to 5000 for the photo runs.
The LL had be changed from 4000 to 3500..(CPL had copied all changes onto the chart but missed the 3500 bit).so according to the controller we were already in it.
And in poo too, .No further clearance.cease ops, return to xxxx and ring this phone no.
Next day we presented ourselves to the Ivory Tower in town for a lecture. I suggested to the CPL you do all the talking, I'll just keep my eyes down / adopt the submissive posture.
At the end of it all the CAsA person pulled two letters from the desk drawer. stating...
" if I had not been happy with your ATTITUDE today, this letter is to CANCEL your approval to operate/AOC, and this letter, allows you to continue. We got the second one....but that is not the point. Its all about demonstrating the ABUSE of POWER.
So there you have it ...you life, livelihood, business, mental and financial wellbeing can all go down the CAsA dunny in a flush.!
Ever see a CASR, CAR, Instrument, or Exemption that defines the attitudes or mind set of any individual, CAsA or otherwise.?
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 01:10
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Was the using RA-Aus idea just to be cheap or to avoid CASA scrutiny as well?
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 01:19
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Originally Posted by Clare Prop View Post
Was the using RA-Aus idea just to be cheap or to avoid CASA scrutiny as well?
I’d guess both, in equal measure.
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 01:40
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Originally Posted by aroa View Post
Sunny... dont you know...its all about their/CAsA's perception of the 'mystique of air safety'
And of course if you argue with them,or have a difference of personalities....LOOK OUT !!!
Their power is outrageous, unfettered and downright disgusting.
eg ...on a survey job the CPL at 3500 was seeking clearance to climb to 5000 for the photo runs.
The LL had be changed from 4000 to 3500..(CPL had copied all changes onto the chart but missed the 3500 bit).so according to the controller we were already in it.
And in poo too, .No further clearance.cease ops, return to xxxx and ring this phone no.
Next day we presented ourselves to the Ivory Tower in town for a lecture. I suggested to the CPL you do all the talking, I'll just keep my eyes down / adopt the submissive posture.
At the end of it all the CAsA person pulled two letters from the desk drawer. stating...
" if I had not been happy with your ATTITUDE today, this letter is to CANCEL your approval to operate/AOC, and this letter, allows you to continue. We got the second one....but that is not the point. Its all about demonstrating the ABUSE of POWER.
So there you have it ...you life, livelihood, business, mental and financial wellbeing can all go down the CAsA dunny in a flush.!
Ever see a CASR, CAR, Instrument, or Exemption that defines the attitudes or mind set of any individual, CAsA or otherwise.?

‘’Are you saying that it’s all about attitude? Where is attitude mentioned in the law and regulations? I’m aware of Ministerial disgression sometimes even delegated but that is all.
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 01:42
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In 2018, more than $11m in loans was paid for 402 enrolments, but only six students graduated.
Graduated what exactly? Did they obtain a CPL? Or did they just receive the Diploma, they are two VERY different things in FEE-HELP land.

BUT..........have a think about those figures. Even if those 6 got the CPL AND the Diploma, it is an appalling 'success' rate.

I'll pause this post so you can have a think about the above, while you're thinking about it, where did the 11 mill go???....................

A statement from Soar Aviation said its board “strongly refuted the findings of ASQA and the decision to revoke Box Hill Institute’s approval to provide third party practical training in conjunction with Soar Aviation.
We strenuously object............do you? So?

“Many of ASQA’s conclusions are based on errors of fact and Soar Aviation is considering the appropriate avenues to maintain its registration,” the statement said.
Well, it'll all be published soon, won't that be a hoot.

“Soar Aviation and Box Hill Institute recently reviewed all procedures that are performed under Commercial Pilot Licence aviation training to ensure they comply with all relevant Civil Aviation legislation.”
And both of you didn't and don't. Let's see the reports, let's see who these reports will be referred to ;-)

The statement went to say 70 people had obtainted their Diploma of Aviation under the Box Hill program.
- Out of how many enrolments?? Go on, give us the figures??

- 70 Diplomas DOES NOT MEAN 70 CPL's, It's important to note that these Aviation FEE-HELP courses can be structured so that you can obtain a Diploma and not receive a CPL. Out of those 70 Diplomas, how many CPL's have been issued??

- How many of your graduated students are now working in the industry? (Minus the ex-students that you yourself have employed).

- What is the total amount of FEE-HELP received by your organisation?

- How many students have been FEE-HELP funded?

Then we can compare the Diploma, CPL & Industry placed pilots.

Free iPad anyone? Ironic isn't it? An iPad would make the most sense for a course like this.

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Old 9th Jan 2020, 02:19
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Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
I think I see a class action on the horizon. Box Hill will wear it because the other party will have taken their money and run.

‘For me the question remains: why was this school not identified and nailed by CASA and the far better school APTA targeted and destroyed instead?
What CASA rule have they actually broken though?

This is an ASQA issue ...
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 02:34
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Originally Posted by swells View Post
What CASA rule have they actually broken though?
The ATSB report on the Bristell crash says that the pilot (with a passenger) did not have a medical.

Who knows what else has been happening. Hopefully we will hear more soon.
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 02:40
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But Soar did have a good attitude as far as CASA was concerned. That seems to be all that matters.
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 02:45
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Originally Posted by Squawk7700 View Post
The ATSB report on the Bristell crash says that the pilot (with a passenger) did not have a medical.

Who knows what else has been happening. Hopefully we will hear more soon.
ah... wasn't aware of that part ... yes I'm sure more will come out in the wash, but just clarifying that there MAY not be a CASA issue (but yeah...) - ASQA does operate in a completly different world ... and IMHO this is part of the problem
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 02:46
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Australia must look like prize idiot amateurs to the rest of the world!
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 02:57
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Originally Posted by Squawk7700 View Post
The ATSB report on the Bristell crash says that the pilot (with a passenger) did not have a medical.

Who knows what else has been happening. Hopefully we will hear more soon.
The ATSB report at https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications...r/ao-2018-066/

Mentions that the PASSENGER was a Student Pilot WITHOUT a valid MEDICAL.
No mention of the status of the Pilot



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Old 9th Jan 2020, 03:05
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I’d be grateful if one of the affected students involved in the VCAT hearing could provide case number and link to decision, please.

kaz
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Old 9th Jan 2020, 03:13
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Originally Posted by 0ttoL View Post
The ATSB report at https://www.atsb.gov.au/publications...r/ao-2018-066/

Mentions that the PASSENGER was a Student Pilot WITHOUT a valid MEDICAL.
No mention of the status of the Pilot


Apologies for that error. That’s what happens when your iPhone is too small! Can’t blame my eyesight or CASA will take away my medical, lol 😂
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