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Low-Timer employment NZ ?

Old 9th Jan 2019, 08:31
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Low-Timer employment NZ ?

Interesting:

“The study focused on New Zealanders, including permanent residents, who received their fixed wing New Zealand Commercial Pilot’s Licence (CPL) between 2000 and 2018. More than 700 pilots took part in the study, from New Zealand and overseas. According to the report, many recent CPL graduates gave up flying because they couldn’t get the entry level positions needed to build up their flying hours to levels required for airline jobs (the goal of more than two thirds of those surveyed).”

NZALPA Report Finds Serious Shake-Up Needed In Aviation Training | Aero-News Network
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 20:06
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Funny. As usual, the government is supposed to cough up. If there is a significant shortage, there would be reduced unemployment among the pilots - it never happens, meaning there is no shortage. There is a shortage of experienced pilots but it is combined with unwillingness of the operators to train the low-time pilots so they rely on the government to create favourable conditions. What is better to be done is to create favourable conditions for the low time pilots to progress - reduce barriers on small air operators, allow training in small companies to be subsidised, etc. In the past there were alternative routes for the pilots to expand their experience - mail runs, check runs, parachute drops, glider tows - now it has dwindled to pretty much nothing.

Last edited by sgenie; 9th Jan 2019 at 20:09. Reason: Wanted to add more info
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Old 9th Jan 2019, 22:42
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"The cost of flight training is a major issue, particularly since changes to the student loan scheme for aviation courses came into effect about 10 years ago,” said Robinson. "Previously students could borrow the total cost of their flight training; now there are caps on borrowing. These changes were specifically intended back in 2008 to reduce the costs to government and reduce demand for flight training.”

NZALPA and other aviation industry groups now want the Government to reconsider this policy in light of the strong demand for pilots. The current situation limits who can take on the expense and prevents a more diverse range of candidates from considering flight training. "Many doctors and dentists graduate with large student loans, but the difference is that they are usually directly employed at the end of their training without the need to self-fund hundreds of contact hours like pilots require. Most pilots have to get those hours up while working other jobs at the same time to pay their bills and trying to service their student loan," Robinson said."


I gained my CPL in 2008 just before these changes took effect. Of the people I trained with, I would guess that less than half actually went on to get jobs and forge a career in aviation.

I think that many, many people signed up for flying lessons because it was so easy to get funding and flying sounded like a fun thing to do. When it came to the business end of their training and they had to go out and look for a job, things turned pear shaped. They put in a half-arsed attempt to find work and when a job didn't fall into their laps they gave up and moved on. Those who were successful were the guys who had a proper interest and passion for aviation. I was amazed that some of the guys I trained with couldn't tell an Airbus and a Boeing apart. Those of us who had a bit of avgeek in us, the ones who could see themselves doing nothing else for work but flying, were the ones who worked hard and gained employment.

The government would be foolish to ease the restrictions on student loan funding. If you're serious enough about making it, you'll do so regardless of where the funding comes from.

Also, comparing pilot training to that of doctors and dentists is ridiculous. Medical training requires consistent hard work and dedication and if you don't measure up you're scrubbed from training. Back in 2008 there was one guy at flying school who was sitting his PPL exams for the third time and hadn't gone solo after 25 hours. Fat chance of him being kicked out - the flying school was only to happy to accommodate his ever-growing student loan balance.
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Old 10th Jan 2019, 04:02
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The NZ survey is of interest. It has highlighted the aspect that while there is a demand for pilots the airlines and other potential employers want to take on board pilots who have more experience than bare basic. That is the same in Australia. How do you get a job without experience, how do you get experience without a job?
While there are any number of training schools producing commercial pilots two things come to mind. One, is that not all pilots want to become an airline pilot but their training is steering them that way. Two, is that the quality of new commercial pilots is not as good or high as it should be. This is not a case of a tick-in-the-box sign-off experience but gaining real experience that does not leave a new employer having to effectively to re-train a new commercial pilot before he is of any use. That is expensive.
Talking with pilots in the industry it is not uncommon to find any number of NZ training pilots flying commercially in Australia. Indeed I have heard the expression that the day after a Kiwi gets his or her CPL they are on the new airliner bound for Australia to get that first flying job. Does this mean that they are beyond the arms of those who want to recoup the student loans? A loan is not a licence funded by the government but a loan by the tax payers of the country, a loan that the average punter cannot get but is funded by him.
Then there is the standard of the new CPL. Different schools produce CPL holders of very different standards. Some new CPL holders are just great and the stuff that their training school should rightly be proud of. On the other hand there are some new and even employed CPL holders that you have to question as to how they passed the licence test.

Perhaps there should be a similar survey run in Australia regarding training and getting jobs and how many give up with big bills to pay back.
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Old 10th Jan 2019, 05:10
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How do you get a job without experience, how do you get experience without a job?
Everyone who is flying professionally today managed to do it somehow.
If you can't make it happen then you don't deserve it, simple as that and no amount of sob stories will change that. Getting the licence was always the easy part and I am suprised that NZALPA is endorsing this. I understand where massey university is coming from, they want to charge 100k to clueless wannabees and they don't want the well to run dry!
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Old 10th Jan 2019, 06:48
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If you can't make it happen then you don't deserve it, simple as that and no amount of sob stories will change that.
... surely that's a direct consequence of us all being born equal, right? I love your simple, binary and unforgiving logic mate. Please teach us more.
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Old 10th Jan 2019, 07:28
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Originally Posted by Okihara View Post
... surely that's a direct consequence of us all being born equal, right? I love your simple, binary and unforgiving logic mate. Please teach us more.
Guess what, life is unfair and those born in a wealthy family will have a leg up. I don't like it either but it's the reality.

But if you couldn't get a job because you didn't want to leave your girlfriend in Auckland then who's fault is it?

Kia kaha
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Old 10th Jan 2019, 22:20
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Pilot shortage means that new CPLs are now being hired in NZ. not even C-Cats. Generally you need the right attitude to get a job though (arrogant new know it all CPL is not the right one)
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 05:20
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Originally Posted by runway16 View Post
....Indeed I have heard the expression that the day after a Kiwi gets his or her CPL they are on the new airliner bound for Australia to get that first flying job. Does this mean that they are beyond the arms of those who want to recoup the student loans? A loan is not a licence funded by the government but a loan by the tax payers of the country, a loan that the average punter cannot get but is funded by him.
Not quite....

New Zealand has agreements in place with Australia to ensure that information regarding employment, address and income etc are shared to assist with recovery of outstanding Tax, Child Support and Student Loans payments etc.

Which results in stories like this: https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/09/3...than-taxpayers
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Old 11th Jan 2019, 10:45
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Before anyone starts hyperventilating about pilot shortages -

Etihad laying off pilots
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