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Airservices Airspace Modernisation Proposal & Consultation

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Airservices Airspace Modernisation Proposal & Consultation

Old 2nd Nov 2018, 04:22
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Airservices Airspace Modernisation Proposal & Consultation

Two changes currently proposed are:

1) National Standardisation of Class A and E Airspace• Class A airspace will be applied from 24,500ft (FL245) to 60,000ft (FL600).

• In medium and high density airspace, the Class C upper limit will change to FL245 and in low
density, the lower limit will be raised to FL245 (from 18,500ft (FL180)

• Class E will remain as is (in the Mildura, Tasmania and Dubbo corridors).

• In low density continental areas, Class E airspace will be lowered to 12,500ft (FL125) (excluding control areas).

• Class C airspace will be introduced underneath Class A airspace in medium and high density areas where Class A airspace has been raised.

2) Transfer of control responsibility of surveilled Class C airspace from Air Traffic Control Towers at five regional locations to an Enroute sector in either Melbourne or Brisbane Air Traffic Services Centres

Airspace Modernisation Airservices

http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/...E-Airspace.pdf

Feedback to airservices requested by 16 November...

Last edited by Captain Garmin; 2nd Nov 2018 at 04:32. Reason: Set out
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Old 2nd Nov 2018, 05:35
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Modernisation? How’s about HBA, LST, MKY & ROK a class C tower with full radar? That might be an awesome start.... and towers stay open until the last RPT arrives.
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Old 2nd Nov 2018, 11:41
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Originally Posted by Flava Saver View Post
Modernisation? How’s about HBA, LST, MKY & ROK a class C tower with full radar? That might be an awesome start.... and towers stay open until the last RPT arrives.
And who pays for that? Does the traffic justify that level of service?
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Old 3rd Nov 2018, 05:29
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Originally Posted by triadic View Post
And who pays for that? Does the traffic justify that level of service?
triadic,
You have been around as long as I have, you must know, by now, that in Australian aviation, life is priceless, no expenditure, no matter how large, or regulation no matter how silly, or restriction no matter how useless, is unjustified, to address a risk, no matter how small that risk, indeed to even address a "perception of a risk", even when the proponent accepts that they cannot show that the perception of risk is anything more than the product their febrile imagination.

And we can't just blame CASA or Airservices, given the "expressed views" of the ignoratie of the aviation community.

As the now retired DFO of a big Australian airline once told me: "We have to be able to tell the passengers aviation is "ABSOLUTELY SAFE". An interesting concept --- or perhaps he even believed it.

Tootle pip!!
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Old 3rd Nov 2018, 08:00
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Leady, can't argue with you on that one, but the suggestion above by Flava,that I referred to obviously would come at a cost and any examination of the proposal would have to pass a cost - benefit analysis and well as a risk analysis before moving forward. It may well be that some proposals have a significant risk attached and the associated cost is therefore accepted, however there is a very well established process for such proposals/changes and at the end of the day 'somebody' has to front up with the $$'s If it is judged to be acceptable by the decision makers in conjunction with industry then under the present setup, we all pay our share, one way or the other. Something that GA struggles with.
cheers

PS... I heard that LHR changed from a Class A to D airspace/tower as it gave them more flexibility.... why then should we then have Class C at those rural ports?
https://www.nats.aero/environment/co...lassification/
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Old 3rd Nov 2018, 23:33
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And who pays for that? Does the traffic justify that level of service?
One could ask exactly the same about the lowering of Class E...
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Old 4th Nov 2018, 02:01
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triadic,
I guess everybody has long forgotten, but we actually once had a requirement for (effectively) cost/benefit justification of any aviation legislative proposal, in the legislation.

This was in the mid-1990s.

In the midst of some major legislative reform, the (by then CASA) Legal Branch quietly arranged for its repeal to be buried in a mass of other legislative change, buried in the consequential amendments that change always brings. Of course, it is very hard to spot something being erased, as opposed to something added, without positive reference, which was also carefully buried. Even a bloke hired to scrutinize all "new" legislation missed it, so well was the statutory notification buried.

One of the many totally cynical acts I (and you) have witnessed over the years.

Of course, the re-interpretation of S. 9A of the Act followed, falsely claiming (to this day) that CASA CANNOT take cost into account.

Now we are told the GAAG (after almost 20 years) has agreement with the Department and the pollies to put us back to where we were all those years ago.

I will believe the IRON RING will accept that when I see the legislative amendment "on the books".


Tootle pip!!
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Old 4th Nov 2018, 03:03
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Given the data changes etc that are required for a May 2019 implementation, I would think that it is a given that these changes will occur and ‘consultation’ is just ticking the box.

My query is what is the function of OAR? Surely CASA OAR should be constantly reviewing airspace for its suitability and determining when to instigate change. Seems as though the cart is leading the horse.
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Old 4th Nov 2018, 03:25
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Seems as though the cart is leading the horse.
Funny you should say that... there is a few good examples of late:
  • the MULTICOM - 5 years to get nowhere!
  • the Melb VFR coast Route debacle
  • the Wellcamp training area/s - consultation with local operators - future class D tower?
  • the Hamilton Isld Navaid closure
  • Rocket launching NW of Goondiwindi
The consultation outside the airlines by ASA has been poor and there has been much finger pointing between ASA & CASA on some issues which suggests a lack of understanding on what goes on outside the big smoke much to the ongoing confusion of industry. My experience is that the OAR have a specific job to do and don't seem to get involved in much of the discussion, but do refer matters to the RAPACs.
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 03:33
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Definition of 'Consultation' as described by Commissioner G Smith of the IRC in a previous FS decision

(Please excuse the large type - 'tis from a 'cut n paste'...Not intended to imply shouting.....)

Consultation

"In relation to the concept of consultation I wish to make it

clear that this involves more than a mere exchange of

information. For consultation to be effective the participants

must be contributing to the decision-making process not only

in appearance, but in fact".

Commissioner Smith, Melbourne, 12 March, 1991
Definition of 'Consultation'
Statement re: Civil Aviation Authority

Award ODN C

Cheers
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Old 5th Nov 2018, 07:32
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Gee, what was that in relation to??

Who was Chairman of the Board in 1991??
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Old 8th Nov 2018, 06:46
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Tweet tweet: It's been put off until November 2019.

If they can put it off until 2028 when I retire, I'll be very happy!
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Old 8th Nov 2018, 07:53
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Originally Posted by Capn Bloggs View Post
Tweet tweet: It's been put off until November 2019.
I thought May 2019 was a bit ambitious, given as far as I am aware the data cut-off for those charts would be mid-December this year. And if widespread consultation hasn't yet been done with all the affected parties, CASA's OAR would likely have issues approving the airspace change.

There would be a lot of Airservices internal changes required too, including systems, documentation and training.

When Airservices let most of their "back room" people go a couple of years ago, it seems that a lot of knowledge and expertise about such things and other matters went out the door.
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Old 30th Mar 2019, 02:54
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And if widespread consultation hasn't yet been done with all the affected parties, CASA's OAR would likely have issues approving the airspace change.
Rumour has it this is exactly what's just happened to the initial Airspace Change Proposal. Watch this space!
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Old 31st Mar 2019, 00:04
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Originally Posted by Track Shortener View Post
Rumour has it this is exactly what's just happened to the initial Airspace Change Proposal. Watch this space!
Perhaps Airservices should consider bringing back on contract one or two of their "back room" airspace and change management experts we used to deal with, to both keep their chestnuts out of the fire and ensure "due process" is followed in future
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Old 31st Mar 2019, 01:20
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At a recent RAPAC meeting an ASA rep provided a briefing on this program, which had about 5 or 6 stages. Consultation with industry did not appear on any of the slides and when asked we were advised it was in one of the later stages. One has to ask why it was not at stage one? By the time it was briefed, it was a done deal. Not really good enough.
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Old 31st Mar 2019, 01:29
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I seem to recall that was the NASIG approach
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Old 2nd May 2019, 12:55
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Tranche 3 of AsA Airspace Modenisation Project released. Can’t post URL as forum won’t allow, but it’s on the AsA website under “projects” and then “airspace modernisation sub-menu”

Class E over D at regionals in 2020.



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Old 3rd May 2019, 01:16
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Airspace Modernisation

TRANCHE THREE FACT SHEET
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Old 3rd May 2019, 06:04
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Airservices OneSKY & Airspace modernisation

"The (Airspace Modernisation) program is a key enabler for Airservices to deliver the benefits of the OneSKY Australia program "

"Over the coming years, advanced air traffic management technology will be introduced in stages to unlock more than a Billion dollars of economic benefits for Australia."

Stage 1 of OneSKY delivered a digital voice communication capable of mass frequency consolidation, I'm guessing once you have standardised airspace, controller ratings are no longer geographically bound.

Hopefully efficiencies harvested in controller:airspace and controller:aircraft ratio increases come back to the aviation industry and not completely go to Airservices' senior management bonuses or Airservices government dividend returns...

Last edited by Captain Garmin; 3rd May 2019 at 06:05. Reason: grammar
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