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GENERAL AVIATION SUMMIT 2018 - 9th & 10th JULY 2018

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GENERAL AVIATION SUMMIT 2018 - 9th & 10th JULY 2018

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Old 14th May 2018, 07:29
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GENERAL AVIATION SUMMIT 2018 - Update the Act

General Aviation Summit 2018 - Wagga Wagga, NSW

I am pleased to announce that twenty-eight (28) Australian general aviation industry associations have confirmed their attendance for the upcoming General Aviation Summit 2018 - calling for an update to the Civil Aviation Act.

The participation of the vast majority of Australia’s general aviation industry associations conveys a clear message to both the Minister and Government, that our industry is determined to end aviation decline, seeking a cooperative transition towards growth and opportunity through a positive change to the Civil Aviation Act.

I thank the participating general aviation industry associations below for their commitment and participation.

In the spirit of bipartisan support, both the Deputy Prime Minister, Mr Michael McCormack MP, and Mr Anthony Albanese MP, have been invited to attend.

If you are a member of an industry association that is not listed below and would like them to be represented at the General Aviation Summit 2018, please call 0415 577 724. The Summit is open to all general aviation associations and we welcome full participation.


ATTENDING GENERAL AVIATION INDUSTRY ASSOCIATIONS
  1. Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association of Australia (AOPA Australia)
  2. Sport Aircraft Association of Australia (SAAA)
  3. Aircraft Maintenance Repair Overhaul Business Association (AMROBA)
  4. Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association (ALAEA)
  5. Aircraft Electronics Association – South Pacific Region (AEA)
  6. Australian Aircraft Manufacturers Association (AAMA)
  7. Australian Business Aviation Association (ABAA)
  8. Experimental Light Aircraft Association of Australia (ELAAA)
  9. Recreational Aviation Australia Limited (RAAUS)
  10. Australian Warbirds Associations Limited (AWAL)
  11. Australian Women Pilots Association (AWPA)
  12. Seaplane Pilots Association of Australia (SPAA)
  13. RotorTech
  14. Australian Aero Clubs Alliance (AACA)
  15. Royal Federation of Aero Clubs (RFAC)
  16. Airtourer Association (AA)
  17. Cessna 182 Association of Australia (C182AA)
  18. Cessna 200 Association of Australia (C200AA)
  19. Cirrus Owner Pilots Association (COPA)
  20. Lancair Owner Builder Organisation (LOBO)
  21. Australian Beechcraft Society (ABA)
  22. Australian Mooney Pilots Association (AMPA)
  23. International Comanche Society – Australia (ICS)
  24. Hang Gliding Federation of Australia (HGFA)
  25. Gliding Federation of Australia (GFA)
  26. Australian Parachute Federation (APF)
  27. Your Central Coast Airport (YCCA)
  28. Regional Airport User Action Group (RAUG)

Best regards,

BENJAMIN MORGAN
Executive Director
Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) of Australia

Last edited by AOPA; 14th May 2018 at 07:50.
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Old 14th May 2018, 11:49
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Good on AOPA. I ask everyone who has a genuine interest in stopping the decline of GA, especially flight training , to join AOPA.

Yes. Even if you are a member of another organisation. AOPA needs strength!

Otherwise don’t complain if your grandkids can’t get a job in Aviation.
Dick Smith is offline  
Old 15th May 2018, 00:13
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Hope all attendees reach a reasonable consensus on the core issues affecting every part of the industry rather than pet peeves. More unity equals more strength. Because of the news cycle and three year life of parliament means a big section of voters make politicians take notice.

Take note, Francis...AOPA acting as the concilitator bringing all the representative groups together...whodathunkit!

Well done, Ben.
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Old 15th May 2018, 00:26
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A sterling effort by AOPA - well done, Ben.

Just one nit picking question - who is representing the small Air Operator (the single pilot / aircraft, or less than 7 employees Air Operator). I can see where Recreational, and Private are represented, and I can see where the ChartAir and larger GA Operators are represented, but I can't see which organisation represents the small Air Operator.

Any suggestions??
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Old 15th May 2018, 00:27
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Originally Posted by OZBUSDRIVER View Post
Hope all attendees reach a reasonable consensus on the core issues affecting every part of the industry rather than pet peeves.
OZBUSDRIVER, I couldn't agree more!!!! Hopefully the good of the sector overall will triumph over self interest. Some of the organisations listed gain money and power from administering exemptions from ridiculous CASA rules. If the rules were more logical there would be no need for the exemptions and the organisation administering would lose money and power. Hopefully these organizations will be able to see beyond their immediate position and realise that a larger, healthier and more vibrant sector overall will lead to greater participation in their aspect of the whole.
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Old 15th May 2018, 01:59
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I am in Vietnam at the moment and cant post much till i get back. However "the summit" is a standard ploy by the public service to deal with mounting criticism that is usually very effective from a public servant point of view in defanging the critics, keeping the PS in control of the issues and, of course, minimising useful change from the critics perspective. Everybody leaves with a warm inner glow leaving the same public servants in charge. Not much else happens. Sorry to rain on the parade.

I have run one such dog and pony show myself and participated in others. I will try and post some constructive comment in a week in the hope its useful. The odds are still stacked against GA and private pilots in my opinion and there is a less than equal chance of a positive result from a pilots perspective as opposed to an associations perspective.

First hurdle is exactly who sets the agenda, writes the position papers and takes the minutes? ......and this is not trivial procedural BS. another hint; work out membership of your own steering committee right effing now before the department suggests it. The first PS question they ask themselves is who can be bought off? With what?
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Old 15th May 2018, 10:00
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who is representing the small Air Operator (the single pilot / aircraft, or less than 7 employees Air Operator). I can see where Recreational, and Private are represented, and I can see where the ChartAir and larger GA Operators are represented, but I can't see which organisation represents the small Air Operator.
Thanks Outnabout,
That's my question too.
Every time I speak to Ben Morgan he talks about Freelance flight instructors (will kill small flying schools, not big ones) and private Ride Share for PPLs in the UK (will hurt small charter organisations, not airlines or big charter orgs like Fly Corporate).

AOPA's approach has kicked the door down. Now that we're inside, I just hope we aren't wearing a suicide explosive belt
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Old 15th May 2018, 10:35
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And so the cracks appear (or, more accurately, are again exposed publicly).

It all plays into the hands of the pollies.

Have the ‘summit’ behind closed doors or even by email, come up with a united position - good luck with that - and communicate that united position as the united position. But sooner or later you’ve all got to realise the major parties don’t give a sh*t about the united position of a gaggle of alphabet aviation organisations. You’re the people who need to be regulated to prevent unsafe anarchy.

The major parties only care about risks to their cosy duopoly. The only credible risk to their cosy duopoly is posed by Dick’s influence among ordinary punters. If Dick’s not willing to exert that influence effectively...
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Old 15th May 2018, 11:21
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who is representing the small Air Operator ?
I would love to think that AOPA could fill that role - but they will need to embrace the industry sector directly with a working group and they may need to moderate their PPL fantasies of commercial ops without regulation.
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Old 15th May 2018, 13:33
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Originally Posted by Horatio Leafblower View Post
I would love to think that AOPA could fill that role - but they will need to embrace the industry sector directly with a working group and they may need to moderate their PPL fantasies of commercial ops without regulation.
Horatio,
You are clearly unaware that AOPA in Australia was started by commercial/charter operators, not by "private pilots" - to protect themselves from the overreach of the Department of Civil Aviation.

In recent years, the continual reference by "commercial" operators to "blundering bug smasher", "weekend warriors" etc and the implication that AOPA was a bunch of amateurs who probably shouldn't be flying has always been a myth, but a politically effective one, particularly when pushed by the AFAP.

There is nothing in the constitution that limits membership of the AIRCRAFT (any aircraft) OWNERS (of any aircraft) and PILOTS (any pilots, not just PPLs) Association.

Just have a look at the licenses held and background of the present board of AOPA.

----commercial ops without regulation
Perhaps you would like to explain why you think a greater level of regulation needs to be imposed on low end Australian GA than US or UK, ( or Australia years ago) and why greater and more oppressive regulation is good for GA in Australia.

Tootle pip!!
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Old 15th May 2018, 23:01
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon View Post
Have the ‘summit’ behind closed doors or even by email, come up with a united position - good luck with that - and communicate that united position as the united position.
Totally agree.

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Old 16th May 2018, 02:34
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Idly watching Su22's doing touch and go waiting for our aircraft at Da Nang. FFS even Vietnam has simple ICAO template regulations that are much simpler than Australian BS. Why. not use them?
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Old 16th May 2018, 03:01
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Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
Idly watching Su22's doing touch and go waiting for our aircraft at Da Nang. FFS even Vietnam has simple ICAO template regulations that are much simpler than Australian BS. Why. not use them?
Sunfish,
You know why!! We are always the world's first?? world's best ??
Even this newfound enthusiasm for SBAS/WAAS is being "hailed", in several Government press releases, as a "world first".
Self-delusion on a grand scale.
And the sad fact is that not only is the Australian aviation industry (all of it, not just GA) commercially debilitated, but despite delusional claims to the contrary, as a result we have an inferior air safety outcome, compared to the USA.
Clearly, a Lose/Lose/Lose outcome, but it does add to our GNS** score.
Tootle pip!!
** Gross National Stupidity
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Old 16th May 2018, 12:42
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GENERAL AVIATION SUMMIT 2018 - 9th & 10th JULY 2018

GA Summit Participants,

Further to my last email, I would like to confirm that the General Aviation Summit 2018 has been scheduled for Monday 9thJuly to Tuesday 10th July 2018.

I am pleased to advise that the Deputy Prime Minister has accepted our invitation to open the General Aviation Summit, 9th July 2018, addressing delegates from 11:30am. Given how busy the Deputy Prime Minister is, I know I speak on behalf of all the delegates in thanking him for this valued commitment.

I am now awaiting a confirmation from Mr Anthony Albanese MP, who has been invited to speak from 9am, Tuesday 10th July 2018. At this stage all indicators are positive.

Accordingly, I have updated the General Aviation Summit 2018 Programme, which is attached to this email, and I would like to remind participating associations that their Statement of Positions are due in by 28th May 2018. If any of the associations have any questions with respect to the above, please feel free to call 0415 577 724.

I can now confirm that there are twenty-eight (28) registered associations attending the GA Summit 2018, signalling strong support for a positive change to the Civil Aviation Act.
  1. · Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association of Australia (AOPA Australia)
  2. · Sport Aircraft Association of Australia (SAAA)
  3. · Aircraft Maintenance Repair Overhaul Business Association (AMROBA)
  4. · Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association (ALAEA)
  5. · Aircraft Electronics Association – South Pacific Region (AEA)
  6. · Australian Aircraft Manufacturers Association (AAMA)
  7. · Australian Business Aviation Association (ABAA)
  8. · Experimental Light Aircraft Association of Australia (ELAAA)
  9. · Recreational Aviation Australia Limited (RAAUS)
  10. · Australian Warbirds Associations Limited (AWAL)
  11. · Australian Women Pilots Association (AWPA)
  12. · Seaplane Pilots Association of Australia (SPAA)
  13. · Rotorcraft Asia Pacific
  14. · Australian Aero Clubs Alliance (AACA)
  15. · Royal Federation of Aero Clubs (RFAC)
  16. · Airtourer Association (AA)
  17. · Cessna 182 Association of Australia (C182AA)
  18. · Cessna 200 Association of Australia (C200AA)
  19. · Cirrus Owner Pilots Association (COPA)
  20. · Lancair Owner Builder Organisation (LOBO)
  21. · Australian Beechcraft Society (ABA)
  22. · Australian Mooney Pilots Association (AMPA)
  23. · International Comanche Society – Australia (ICS)
  24. · Hang Gliding Federation of Australia (HGFA)
  25. · Gliding Federation of Australia (GFA)
  26. · Australian Parachute Federation (APF)
  27. · Regional Airports User Action Group (RAUAG)
  28. · Your Central Coast Airport Association (YCCA)

If you are in contact with an association that did not receive an invitation and you feel they could benefit being included, please contact me on 0415 577 724. The Summit is open to all general aviation associations and we are encouraging maximum participation.

Thank you again to everyone for your participation and support towards change, please stay tuned for further updates.

Best regards,

BENJAMIN MORGAN

Executive Director – Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association (AOPA) of Australia
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Old 17th May 2018, 03:23
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I am increasingly concerned by what I see is a headlong rush into a veritable Elephant trap set by the public service (the PS) for the associations. Everyone in the industry applauds the efforts being made and is trying to be constructive including me however there are risks in this summit process that need to be managed. In pilot speak, you need an alternate flight plan in case this whole thing turns out to be a waste of time otherwise you will be worse off than before because you will have been effectively neutered by the PS.

The chief risk you are facing is that of being co-opted by the Department - willingly accepting the offer by the PS to become part and parcel of industry change. When that happens, you become responsible to the industry for what happens next - which can be a very sad state of affairs for all of us.

The objective of co-opting is to make you become the Departments lap dog. I have done it myself and had it done to me. The entire PS and all the politicians know how to do it. Aany number of ravening wolves have gone to Canberra in search of 'change" and left as puppy dogs. We start the process with a dose of flattery. The Minister listens attentively. There are lunches, speeches, dinners, fine words and promises to you.

What happens next is that the Minister leaves, promising to stay in touch and admonishing the PS to listen to you. You are now face to face with the PS who will advise the Minister. At this point several things can happen, depending on the egos involved. The Department may suggest forming a small working group, lets call it "GA Australia" (GAA for short) to oversee a rewrite of the Act. They may suggest and offer to pay for consultants to sort through the issues and come up with "a range of options" for consideration, but remember they are the Departments consultants, not yours and the options they produce are theirs not yours. At the end of the day they produce a draft act that you have bought into because you are part of the consulting process weren't you?

So what happens next? You, meaning GA Australia or whatever the new peak body is called, get charged with selling the new product to its constituents and that most likely means selling and apologising for the [email protected]#t sandwich that will be presented. When the industry howls that the new Act is worse than the last, the Department simply says; "talk to GA Australia, they helped write it and approved of it". GA Australia is now the Departments lap dog. Furthermore, the Department now doesn't have to listen to or engage with individual industry groups they simply say; "talk to GAA, they are your peak body now." The Department probably gives GAA a grant to set up a secretariat in Canberra and appoint a local CEO, effectively leaving the entire industry voiceless.

I have left out the descriptions of pandering to egos, dividing and ruling, axe grinding, bribing and pandering to associations that is part and parcel of this process. I've seen it done.

Then there is the question of motives. The Minister couldn't give a rats about the industry, all he cares about is votes. Albanese? Same same. CASA don't want change and this "summit' offers them a perfect opportunity to neuter GA for the next five years until either the industry revolts again under a new leader or dies of neglect.

You need plan B, which is to withhold approval or endorsement of anything and continue to try and build an organisation that is capable of affecting electoral outcomes, in other words building a 'nuclear option' because the threat of losing office is the only thing that always works on politicians and their minions.



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Old 17th May 2018, 05:13
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Couldn't agree more with that Sunfish. You have probably been done over by their processes before. So have I only not in the Aviation field (in my case it was to do with the selloffs of a public utility ) and it's safe guards on prices and service which we all pay for now, as it all meant for nothing.
Your point on them setting up/providing consultants etc is spot on. Do not let them! You must keep control of the agenda and process. They will of course use the age old tactic of divide and conquer . The old " you engineers shouldn't be told by pilots what's in your best interest etc. Will be used where ever an opportunity arises.
As for the current Minister. Word has it he is next to useless on anything technical/operational and will dither and stall till the cows come home finally doing just what his department tells him.
Good luck...me thinks you going to need it.
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Old 17th May 2018, 05:28
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Word has it he is next to useless on anything technical/operational and will dither and stall till the cows come home finally doing just what his department tells him.
I can confirm MT from personal experience in trying to get Mr McCormack to take action on something involving his portfolio that he IS useless on anything technical/operational, DOES dither/stall, and DOES exactly what his department/minders tell him, which is 5/8ths of the sqrt of FCUK-ALL.

He is a complete and utter waste of time.

Sunfish needs to be listened to!!
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Old 17th May 2018, 20:47
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Well...a weakness! If McCormack is next to useless with thins technical and IF the greatest PM eva wants to through his deputy under a bus....reach out to the guy directly and reverse the tactics on the PS. Need to make the minister believe his advisers do not have his ...and our interests at heart. Nothing to lose. To reinforce Sunfish, the entire group must be prepared to walk away from the table/trap before it gets to the PS appointed talkfest with a counter demand.
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Old 17th May 2018, 22:22
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Sadly, I believe things will play out exactly as Sunfish described. And even if it doesn't and The Act gets changed to exactly the wording that everyone wants, our regulator will just ignore it and keep on trucking. Does anyone really think they won't? REALLY? A Leopard cannot change its spots. We need a new leopard. What we all want probably, is for our regulator to be sacked for incompetence, an administrator appointed, and all our regulations dumped for FAA/NZ which are easy to read.All aviators want, is to have a clear and concise rule set to follow that does not destroy the industry. Every time our regulator puts something out for consultation, it's 350 pages via 7 publications, with detailed responses required by next Thursday. Industry leaders have to down tools to wade through it, on their own dime, perhaps dozens of hours of UNPAID work. Solution? Just do what they do - send an estimate of the costs of reviewing it, with payment required up front before you commence. Use at least $190 per hour, their top figure. (Dick, you can add a zero!) Then after review, tally up the hours actually spent, ask for a significant $ top-up before handing over your report.

Rotorcraft Asia Pacific at the summit?? The helicopter exhibition? Held in Singapore?? Huh???
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Old 18th May 2018, 05:20
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The focus must be "get the act changed" without that nothing will happen.
With it all the rest may follow.
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