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Air New Zealand Recruitment - Latest

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Air New Zealand Recruitment - Latest

Old 13th Jul 2019, 22:41
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
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At the end of the day it's their train set and they can run the recruitment days as they wish. Instead of focusing on how BS it may or may not be I would be studying what Welshy old chap offered. You fellas owe him a beer.
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Old 14th Jul 2019, 08:40
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Daunted by sitting in a jet sim and not flown one before, and for many their first multi crew situation.
The only way to know what to do, as in telling the other pilot to desist, is to either know someone who has been through the process before (and knew what to do), or you have read it here.
So it would seem a preselection process is in place doesn't it...may as well go back to more blatant who you know and not what you know selection like they used to have...oh wait a minute...
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Old 14th Jul 2019, 09:33
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DeltaT View Post
Daunted by sitting in a jet sim and not flown one before, and for many their first multi crew situation.
No one is getting an interview with Air NZ jet having never flown multi crew before!! (Other than he very rare military fast jet pilot who applies, and I donít think a few questions are going to bother them!)
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Old 14th Jul 2019, 10:25
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DeltaT View Post
Daunted by sitting in a jet sim and not flown one before, and for many their first multi crew situation.
The only way to know what to do, as in telling the other pilot to desist, is to either know someone who has been through the process before (and knew what to do), or you have read it here.
So it would seem a preselection process is in place doesn't it...may as well go back to more blatant who you know and not what you know selection like they used to have...oh wait a minute...
This sim stuff is being blown out of proportion really. You hop in a sim after being briefed on some basic thrust/pitch settings and go flying. No one is expecting you to ace it, everyone is aware that you've probably never flown the type before and maybe its your first jet. You pole the thing around the sky doing various tasks that anyone with an instrument rating should be able to do while they have a bit of a chat. If your brain needs some space for the flying stuff then you stop chatting until you can talk again. It was the most low key sim ride I could imagine having.
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Old 15th Jul 2019, 07:18
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Slezy9 I didn't say anything about interview for a jet position, its a interview with a jet sim as part of the process, so going for a turboprop role -still get a simride in a jet, or at least you used to.
AerocatS2A We're just discussing a thorn in the interview process. Or as the ANZ folk like to call it, a bit of fluff. (nothing like downplaying eh) Lets say you have been flying for, lets say, Sunair, Air Napier, GBA, Navjos, an old B200 etc, did your training in Tomahawks, Seneca etc, ever going to have seen EFIS before? Have you dealt with the jet cockpit presentation of the VOR, that kinds looks like an old ADF too? All the while dealing with all that jet thrust and inertia. Yeah sure, ho humm, low key.

Last edited by DeltaT; 15th Jul 2019 at 21:34. Reason: ADF not NDB
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Old 15th Jul 2019, 07:59
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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You're not expected to ace it DeltaT, you're expected to show that you are trainable. A bit of improvement over the session.
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Old 15th Jul 2019, 21:33
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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AerocatS2A I haven't said anything about perfecting it. Trainable...we all got trained to get a CPL. Show improvement...well let the candidate get on with it then.
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Old 15th Jul 2019, 22:57
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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Regarding the Turboprop interview. I came off 2 years of being out of commercial aviation, but was in the process of doing an IR renewal. They put me in a 787 sim, gave me some thrust/pitch settings and off we went. The sim profile isn't exactly a secret. Personally, most of the guys and girls I know, all went down to "Fly-a-jet" or similar to get some familiarity with glass cockpits and jet handling prior to their interview. I had a lot of time in G1000's etc, so the glass cockpit thing wasn't really a concern for me... except the skypointer which always seemed to mess with my head ... it was more the handling that I wanted to experience. Not exactly cheap, but I considered it part of the interview prep.

And yes, they asked questions... and yes, at one point I told them to standby as I was busy flying the aircraft onto a radial (and had already blown through an altitude and a heading earlier because I was busy trying to be clever and answering questions! ) and as ElZilcho mentioned previously, they immediately left me to fly the aircraft. Once the radial was intercepted and we were S+L, they started the questions again. Several questions later they asked "Were you asked any other questions that you haven't answered yet?"... so I answered the "standby" question.

Personally, the thing I found most annoying was when I asked the PM to time the 1 minute outbound in the hold for me... "forever" later I asked "how are we going on that 1 minute?"... "oh, yeah... 1min 10 secs"

Honestly, I thought my sim was a bit below par... and then the feedback I got was that overall my sim went really well... and I had "shown improvement"
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 02:15
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DeltaT View Post
AerocatS2A I haven't said anything about perfecting it. Trainable...we all got trained to get a CPL. Show improvement...well let the candidate get on with it then.
Correct, we did all get trained to CPL. Unfortunately some people have a limit to what they can do (I have been in the sim with some truly atrocious pilots) and while they may be trainable to some degree there comes a point where they can't go any further without an unreasonable investment in time. So "trainable" is not a given as you seem to be implying. As for letting the candidate "get on with it", if the candidate needs their full mental capacity just to fly a few turns then I don't think they belong in a flight deck. Flying a B777 or B787 may sound daunting, but it really isn't, not at 200 knots with partial flaps, the EFIS setup with a full compass rose, no flight directors etc. In some ways a Dash 8 sim would be harder to fly nicely as you have to use the rudder with power changes to keep it balanced.

Anyway, what is your solution, how do you think it should be run?
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 08:08
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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Unfortunately some people have a limit to what they can do (I have been in the sim with some truly atrocious pilots) and while they may be trainable to some degree there comes a point where they can't go any further without an unreasonable investment in time.
Correct, so that's the learning curve bit which all airlines look for.
However it should be said its many a time the crap sim instructor which also influences the training time in airlines, and the student has to pick up the slack through no fault of their own, so you have to pick a candadite who is even better still. And then when on the line, the training captain can be someone who has done nothing more than 2 sims and 2 classroom sessions prior to checkout in the airline with no other instructing background whatsoever. So really the problem can be 2 sided.

As for letting the candidate "get on with it", if the candidate needs their full mental capacity just to fly a few turns then I don't think they belong in a flight deck. Flying a B777 or B787 may sound daunting, but it really isn't, not at 200 knots with partial flaps, the EFIS setup with a full compass rose, no flight directors etc.
Does ANZ operate a sterile cockpit policy below 10000ft? Why is that? Or are you so wonderful in ANZ and better than the rest of the world you don't have that policy?
Yeah sure its so easy flying a jet mate, she'll be right, no one really needs training flying one at all. I reckon I can stop a 737 max from nose diving after takeoff too cause I am that good.
Read my point again about EFIS.
The knowledge of how to deal with your distraction in the recruitment process is only known by having prior knowledge of the test. That makes the test biased. Hey thats what you want to do, way to go, I am simply pointing out a fact worthy of attention.
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 09:52
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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Certainly ANZ has a sterile cockpit policy but I would be disappointed if a pilot were not capable of chatting while flying, if it took all of their spare brain capacity to just physically fly the plane. I mean this is our job right? The physical flying is a fundamental skill that should sit bubbling away in the background. If you can't perform that fundamental skill and have some brain space left over then should you be there?

Yeah sure its so easy flying a jet mate, she'll be right, no one really needs training flying one at all. I reckon I can stop a 737 max from nose diving after takeoff too cause I am that good.
Flying a jet is, in many respects, easier than flying a turboprop or a piston twin. Managing a jet can be harder, but you're not managing it in the recruitment sim, you're just flying it around at 200 knots and yes that is easy enough.
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Old 16th Jul 2019, 10:10
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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....and yet somehow people still manage to pass the interview process and get hired.

All round the world, Airlines have their own takes on the recruitment process, some Pilots pass while others don’t. If there’s one thing I’ve learned over the past 2 decades, those who complain the loudest about XYZ Airlines hiring policy are either those who have failed or those who haven’t done it at all but “heard about it from a mate”.

It is what it is, either step up or.....
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 02:24
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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I am simply pointing out a fact
..........
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 04:29
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DeltaT
I am simply pointing out a fact...
Along with a bunch of unfounded assumptions like flying a jet is hard and interpreting an EFIS is hard. I will grant you that flying a jet and interpreting an EFIS is probably hard for some people but the recruitment process is partly designed to weed those people out yeah?

As for the test being biased, sure every subjective test is biased by the culture and preconceptions of the tester, that is a fact, I don't see it as a fact worthy of attention though.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 07:19
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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biased by the culture and preconceptions of the tester
Great, you finally agree with me after all that.

I don't see it as a fact worthy of attention though.
you say tomato, I say tomahto

unfounded assumptions like flying a jet is hard and interpreting an EFIS is hard
Read what I said. I am well aware after plenty of practise and exposure it becomes easy.


Has the overall interview process pass rate improved from 50% from a few years ago?
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 08:07
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DeltaT View Post
Great, you finally agree with me after all that.
I agree that any subjective assessment by anyone about anything will be inherently biased. I don't agree that the Air NZ sim ride is worthy of special mention because of that.





Read what I said. I am well aware after plenty of practise and exposure it becomes easy.
No, it is easy straight away. A jet is easy to pole around the sky, there is no mystery. Like I said before there are things about operating a jet that are challenging, but just flying it around a bit is not one of those things. I also don't see what is so challenging about being presented with a picture of an ADI instead of an actual ADI or having your speed represented on a tape. My first type that had a speed tape I didn't get to see it in a sim, it was straight up in the plane and it wasn't hard. Is that because I am amazing? No. It's because it just isn't all that hard. Most young pilots these days will have seen an EFIS on a PC flight sim anyway. I just don't see being put into a jet with an EFIS as a big challenge, especially when all the other candidates will be in a similar boat.




Has the overall interview process pass rate improved from 50% from a few years ago?
No idea. I have no knowledge of the Link recruitment sessions. My own recruitment was to the jet fleet and I think seven out of the eight got in.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 10:22
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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For some reason what I have said keeps being twisted into something else. I don't think english comprehension is part of the ANZ testing process.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 10:50
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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You seem to think it is unfair to put a candidate into an unfamiliar environment while loading them up with superfluous chat. You also seem think that those with inside knowledge will be at an advantage because they will know to assert themselves and tell the recruiter to “stand by” if they need to.

I disagree with the first bit, I’ve said why, and there’s little point saying it again because I think we just disagree at how challenging the unfamiliar environment is.

The second bit is is essentially saying that candidates who research the interview process are at an advantage. I fully agree with that but fail to see how Air NZ is any different from any other company. Those who do some homework will be rewarded.
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 13:39
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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You two! I was enjoying this thread until your disagreement. Now the popcorn is stale and the salt has hardened my arteries. Are you sure you are not married?
For the record, I don’t work for/nor plan to work for AirNZ or affiliates. I have however previously worked with a number of people that have gone there. They are fine pilots and deserve the role. May I suggest it’s the employing companies train set? They set the sim/interview reqts to suit well umm what they want. Any experienced checker/tester/instructor can tell a persons abilities fairly quickly. It’s not just about how quickly you adapt and pole any aircraft, it’s about decisions also. The ability to detect when arriving at overload and shedding (think aviate, navigate, communicate - then expand on stuff like human factors) what is least important is an important ability for any pilot.
Whether you like it or not, this is their process. It seems reasonable. Maybe they want to see people answering ‘standby, in the middle of an intercept’. That would be what I want to hear. Commanders. What is read online is always an assistance, but a good aviator should naturally have this function built in. Those that don’t - well they are simply human and not as compatible for the role as others..
Cheers!��
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Old 17th Jul 2019, 14:44
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Personally, the thing I found most annoying was when I asked the PM to time the 1 minute outbound in the hold for me... "forever" later I asked "how are we going on that 1 minute?"... "oh, yeah... 1min 10 secs"
Most airliners have two stopwatches - one for each pilot. As one who has been caught by the other pilot forgetting to time outbound, it saves the hassle if you also press your own stopwatch. Airmanship?
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