RAAF Pilot
I thought the same was possible - until he deleted the thread he started where he made a COMPLETE goose of himself... Unfortunately, he's for real...
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Looking forward to returning to Japan soon but in the meantime continuing the never ending search for a bad bottle of Red!
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Ah well, Joe; In which case I think that we can rest assured that StickWithTheTruth's Friend referred to below will be on guard. After all, Akhami did, if I'm not mistaken, out himself in an earlier post as to his ancestry.
I can still hear 'Whoop whoop...wind up...' though.
I've got a very close friend in RAAF recruiting, I'll let him know to be on the the lookout for a naive self-deserving kid coming through....
Chief Tardis Technician
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For the OP, have your Son practice his metal arithmetic, its a handy skill to have when trying to work out time distance calculations at speed at low level. It will show a determination to succeed. Your Son is still young, so a bit more maturity will help. Maths, english and communication skill are a necessity, as is the ability to listen and learn from those more experienced than yourself.
I do have a bit of experience in the area, having survived 22 yrs in the RAAF, and have been working with the Student Pilots for the last 24 yrs.
Yakami , you need to listen to those who have been there and done that, or you wont last in the system.
I do have a bit of experience in the area, having survived 22 yrs in the RAAF, and have been working with the Student Pilots for the last 24 yrs.
Yakami , you need to listen to those who have been there and done that, or you wont last in the system.
When I was ten years old at school in England we had a sadistic maths master who would slap you hard in the face if you had trouble with mental maths. That bastard nearly broke my ear drum on one occasion. I have loathed maths ever since that experience, but was just plumb lucky that when I applied to join the RAAF when I was 19 that a mental maths test was not required. It was a simple aptitude test and the real test was sitting in front of the interview board of four RAAF officers one of whom was to become my CO when I got in the RAAF.
The four of them (all wartime pilots) were there to assess your personality and school background (cadet force, enjoyed Rugby and playing cricket etc).
I was assessed as "Unsuitable" but was able to have another go several months later. Logged 10 hours in a Tiger Moth in the meantime which broke my meagre savings, but that impressed the next interview board and was selected for RAAF pilot training after that. Sometimes persistence does pay off. If skill at mental maths had been a criterion I wouldn't be writing this account now.
The four of them (all wartime pilots) were there to assess your personality and school background (cadet force, enjoyed Rugby and playing cricket etc).
I was assessed as "Unsuitable" but was able to have another go several months later. Logged 10 hours in a Tiger Moth in the meantime which broke my meagre savings, but that impressed the next interview board and was selected for RAAF pilot training after that. Sometimes persistence does pay off. If skill at mental maths had been a criterion I wouldn't be writing this account now.
If skill at mental maths had been a criterion I wouldn't be writing this account now
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A small piece of information for any potential applicants that may come along and see the maths problem posed in the original post. Problems such as this are part of the estimation section of the aptitude tests sat on the pilot additional testing day. The questions do not require an exact answer to be calculated.
You are presented with the question and a selection of multiple choice answers. Provided you can quickly estimate a ballpark number and magnitude for the answer, then the correct multiple choice answer is easily deduced. The true difficulty in this test is being able to do this estimation process repetitively, while under time pressure and after having already sat other aptitude tests.
This is going off of memory so don't hold me to the exact details. Answering all questions in the section requires an answer to be selected in around 10-15 seconds. I'm unsure if incorrect answers impact the final score, however I still elected to focus on accuracy over completing all questions and achieved a successful result regardless. The questions are composed of one or more maths operations applied to some combination of integers, fractions and/or decimals.
You are presented with the question and a selection of multiple choice answers. Provided you can quickly estimate a ballpark number and magnitude for the answer, then the correct multiple choice answer is easily deduced. The true difficulty in this test is being able to do this estimation process repetitively, while under time pressure and after having already sat other aptitude tests.
This is going off of memory so don't hold me to the exact details. Answering all questions in the section requires an answer to be selected in around 10-15 seconds. I'm unsure if incorrect answers impact the final score, however I still elected to focus on accuracy over completing all questions and achieved a successful result regardless. The questions are composed of one or more maths operations applied to some combination of integers, fractions and/or decimals.
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Now note that the difference from 13852 to 14000 is 148. And 148/8 is 18.5. Therefore the answer is 1750 - 18.5 = 1731.5.
I don't know whether those things are super important to pilots though. That being said, I always find it somewhat amusing when my flight instructor takes a calculator to find out how time an aircraft has left to run on the maintenance sheet.
Centaurus, I can relate to brutal teachers. (Having had French and Latin ones when I was aged eight in England.) Fortunately, my family migrated to Adelaide and I applied to join the RAAF as a Radio Technician in 1974. I was required to become an Australian citizen, a decision that I've never regretted. The application then went a bit cold until a FSGT from Recruiting turned up at my parents' home, one night. (They must have been short for Radtechs at that time?) Or perhaps my Dad slipped the guy $50 to get me out of home?
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ADF pilot assesment day
Hi, I'm trying to become a pilot in the ADF, and have an assessment day soon. What advice can you folk give me. What exactly do I need to know, and how do I distinguish myself from other candidates ? Also this is the chunk of the testing correct? Where most people make it or don't?
Hi, I'm trying to become a pilot in the ADF, and have an assessment day soon. What advice can you folk give me. What exactly do I need to know, and how do I distinguish myself from other candidates ? Also this is the chunk of the testing correct? Where most people make it or don't?
Good luck
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Additional testinf
Hi all, hope this is the area where I ask this as I'm new here. My son is 17 doing year 12 and want's to be pilot in RAAF. He had completed his You session, then today went for the further testing and came undone on the mental arithmetic with questions like, 13,852 x 1/8 = . He was informed that he could reapply in 12 months. My question is, does the RAAF look at people applying for the second time seriously or are they really just interested in people making it through the first time? TIA.
Hi,
I suggest checking out some of the courses available online that help with maths revision specifically for additional testing. There are adf mentoring programs which provide a really good study base.
At the end of the day it’s all about motivation.
Good luck to your son.
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Hi all, hope this is the area where I ask this as I'm new here. My son is 17 doing year 12 and want's to be pilot in RAAF. He had completed his You session, then today went for the further testing and came undone on the mental arithmetic with questions like, 13,852 x 1/8 = . He was informed that he could reapply in 12 months. My question is, does the RAAF look at people applying for the second time seriously or are they really just interested in people making it through the first time? TIA.
I did my additional testing and assessment day last year and the most important thing to focus on, in my personal opinion are the options that you’re given. You aren’t made to calculate the exact answer, only estimate. For example, for the question that you posted, the options given may have been:
A. 17000
B. 1700
C. 170
D. 17
Whereby you would select the closest approximation, it’s hard when you have precise number but when you start rounding, you can get it in seconds so realistically you’re only calculating 14000/8.
This is only an example, it’s not on the real test, some questions we’ll be more precise. Hope this helps
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13852 = 16000 - 2048
2048 / 8 = 256
16000 / 8 = 2000
=> 13852 / 8 = 2000 - 256 = 1744
What some older posters may overlook is that with the proliferation of calculators on everything nowadays, mental maths in now young adults may not be as well developed as it was in the days of yore.
I subtly teach my kids tricks like this. In car trips, hiking etc. We're doing 100kmh, it's 60km to the next town, a lolly for the closest ETA in the next 5 seconds sort of thing- and they need to approximate.
Additionally it increases the chances of finding finger error when using the calculator on more complicated stuff, which might make the answer an order of magnitude out. If they are using the calculator for a homework task I ask them what should the answer be, roughly.
Last edited by compressor stall; 18th Oct 2019 at 21:00.
I was taught numerical approximation at Uni. These are a subset of what are called “Fermi Problems” I think it’s a needed skill in a pilot because it allows you to mentally cross check instruments and calculations.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_problem
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi_problem
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What some older posters may overlook is that with the proliferation of calculators on everything nowadays, mental maths in now young adults may not be as well developed as it was in the days of yore.
I subtly teach my kids tricks like this. In car trips, hiking etc. We're doing 100kmh, it's 60km to the next town, a lolly for the closest ETA in the next 5 seconds sort of thing- and they need to approximate.
Additionally it increases the chances of finding finger error when using the calculator on more complicated stuff, which might make the answer an order of magnitude out. If they are using the calculator for a homework task I ask them what should the answer be, roughly.
I subtly teach my kids tricks like this. In car trips, hiking etc. We're doing 100kmh, it's 60km to the next town, a lolly for the closest ETA in the next 5 seconds sort of thing- and they need to approximate.
Additionally it increases the chances of finding finger error when using the calculator on more complicated stuff, which might make the answer an order of magnitude out. If they are using the calculator for a homework task I ask them what should the answer be, roughly.
I'm not in any way assigning blame, as I said people are a product of their environment. There is however a profound generational difference in the application of mental maths and approximation.