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PC Gone Mad in B200 Accident Report

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PC Gone Mad in B200 Accident Report

Old 8th Jul 2017, 00:16
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vermont Hwy
Posts: 485
Originally Posted by Lead Balloon View Post
You're missing the point.

In order to work out the operational/safety implications of the report, you have to read what it says. If what it says is confusing, it makes it difficult to work out the implications.
Oh yes, yes I'm sorry. This thread topic is concern about "how" the report was written.
Here I was thinking people might be more concerned over things like training, mishandling an engine shutdown, oversight etc.
I'm in the wrong thread.

Lookleft, as for your remark about the EN crash. Maybe. Anything is possible. But it would surprise me.
Car RAMROD is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2017, 02:13
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Australia
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The ATSB has been writing reports this way for what? at least a year, probably longer
Oh how I miss the clarity of writing of Mac Job in his Aviation Safety Digest series of yesteryear. Thank goodness I still have them in my library and read them over again out of the sheer pleasure of his prose.
By the way, has anyone noticed another recent trend in ATSB reports where the author of the report piles on the praise to crews for using good CRM, TEM and other buzz words.
One recent example comes to mind.

Quote: "Safety message

In this case, the crew showed a high level of professionalism in response to a weather related event. The crew demonstrated high levels of communication and coordination, promptly applied checklists and procedures." Unquote.

Yet on the other hand ATSB have a note in their reports saying, among other things, that their policy is not to apportion blame on anyone. So they coyly avoid saying the pilot did a lousy job and should have gone around and instead did a bastard of a landing which blew all the tyres.
A37575 is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2017, 00:47
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Sunshine Coast
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Originally Posted by compressor stall View Post
No, I remember seeing it in a report some time ago and there was a discussion here about it too.

It annoyed me then and continues to annoy me now.
Looks like it was first raised by Centaurus in October last year with regards to AO-2016-075
Final 14 October 2016; some 18 months after the practice was first introduced.

I'm quite traditional in my approach to the English language, particularly written English. That is in part a product of my experience as a staff officer in the military; on arriving at my HQ posting there were two books on my desk - the JSP (AS) 101 Manual of Service Writing and Fowler's Modern English Usage - and my SO1 emphasised the ABC of effective writng; Accuracy, Brevity and Clarity. That said, I understand that English usage is fluid and, for traditionalists, annoyingly so at times.

In the report mentioned in this thread, "they" is used as a non-gender singular pronoun nearly 30 times. On every occasion it is preceded by its antecedent, "the pilot", and generally quite closely preceded by it; on average only 15 words separate the antecedent and the pronoun although the worst case is 43 words. The antecedent and the pronoun never fall in different paragraphs (so I can't see how the report can be said to be "referring to "the pilot" and in the next paragraph referring to the pilot as "they.""); at worst the antecedent and the pronoun are separated by a sentence.

In short, given the constraints associated with non-gender singular pronouns, the author has taken all reasonable measures to ensure that the document is understandable. You may not agree with the style and word choices but that doesn't make the document abstruse.
MickG0105 is online now  
Old 9th Jul 2017, 01:22
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Here and there
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You may not agree with the style and word choices but that doesn't make the document abstruse.

Mick. WTF does the word "abstruse" mean? I suspect most PPRuNe readers would have to look it up in a dictionary.
That said, I understand that English usage is fluid and, for traditionalists, annoyingly so at times.
Quite so. See abstruse
Judd is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2017, 04:36
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 155
Can we imagine a judge sentencing an offender in a sexual assault case: "the offender then exposed their penis..."

The unstated premise behind the use of plural pronouns is that if the sex of the pilot is identified then a reader will assume that the sex is relevant to what happened. I just don't believe that the premise is accurate.

All that happens is that the reports are made less comprehensible than they could be. Anything that diverts the reader away from the message, and many of us are diverted, is something which should be avoided.
Bull at a Gate is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2017, 10:53
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
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Posts: 1,658
Originally Posted by Bull at a Gate View Post
Can we imagine a judge sentencing an offender in a sexual assault case: "the offender then exposed their penis..."
Given the current way people identify as other than what they were born as...;-)

DF.
Desert Flower is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2017, 05:04
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
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Originally Posted by Desert Flower View Post
Given the current way people identify as other than what they were born as...;-) DF.
Good point DF, and may apply to some pilots.
Eddie Dean is offline  
Old 10th Jul 2017, 08:42
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Abeam YAYE
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Shame it's found its way into aviation. Unfortunately, we can expect a lot more or this self righteous PC bullshit as the Leftist/ Green juggernaut barrels down the road, destroying what remains of our traditional western culture.

This is a really good read; The Dull, Boring and Predictable Left.
pithblot is offline  

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