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Light plane crash near Mt Gambier

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Light plane crash near Mt Gambier

Old 1st Jul 2017, 02:23
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Melbourne
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Originally Posted by flywatcher View Post
There are good, decent, intelligent, current pilots of mature age who fly immaculate aircraft and are prepared to donate their time and their aircraft to help others. They go about their business competently and legally in private category flights. They are not 250 hour commercial pilots who on this forum at least, appear to know everything and are doing their best to demonise this gentleman and the organisation he was helping. I did not know him, I had never met him, I have never flown an Angel flight and I will not speculate on what occurred. But it would be nice if some of the aviation gods here with their infinite newly won wisdom would just stop and think for a while that this was a man who in his 73 years on this earth has obviously contributed a large amount to his community. I can only hope some of the experts here can do the same in the next 50 years of their life.

Amen to the above.
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Old 1st Jul 2017, 02:43
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Amen, also Flywatcher.......

Cheers
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Old 1st Jul 2017, 07:58
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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There is always a diversity of opinions, and people are perfectly entitled to to hold them!

For what its worth, I have always held the view that the concept of Angel Flight, while quite honorable and noble, is fundamentally flawed!

Dr
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Old 1st Jul 2017, 08:53
  #104 (permalink)  
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
 
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flywatcher; Hear hear.

There is always a diversity of opinions, and people are perfectly entitled to to hold them!
Agreed.

For what its worth, I have always held the view that the concept of Angel Flight, while quite honorable and noble, is fundamentally flawed!

Dr
Ok Forky, I`m of an open mind re that comment, so what would you do re AF to rectify your perceived flaws? A genuine question btw.
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Old 1st Jul 2017, 10:30
  #105 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ForkTailedDrKiller View Post
There is always a diversity of opinions, and people are perfectly entitled to to hold them!

For what its worth, I have always held the view that the concept of Angel Flight, while quite honorable and noble, is fundamentally flawed!

Dr
Funny you should say that, as I have just been corresponding with someone who said exactly the same thing.

DF.
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Old 1st Jul 2017, 11:16
  #106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
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With great/extreme trepidation-

Love, Prayers and God's Speed to the Young Soul involved and her mother!

Good evening Dr Fork-
'is fundamentally flawed!'
Well Said- you, Sir.

Remove the 'honourable intent' aspect, put that to one side- ('if'- you all can) and is the Operation Insurable.........

I do not pretend to be understanding of the Operational standard, but- Private/VFR on this mission, on this day.......??????- as described, herein.

Dr, would you Launch on that day, (as described) in a naturally aspirated machine......???

Go steady all- as the issue/investigation progresses.
Rgds all
S28- BE

Last edited by Section28- BE; 1st Jul 2017 at 11:26. Reason: a- 's
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Old 1st Jul 2017, 21:23
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Don't know the original source of this but reproduced from the recreationalflying website:

"Mt Gambier Holden dealer Peter Roberts, who knew Mr Gilbert for 45 years, said he was “always having a crack” and his enthusiasm and passion would be sadly missed.
He said the former car dealer was “out there, passionate about the things in his life and always outspoken” during their lengthy relationship.

“He was certainly an icon in the car industry,” he said.
Mr Roberts said he had been worried when Mr Gilbert turned to flying in his 70s, but his long-time friend had shrugged it off.

“He said he was never too old. But without beating around the bush, I thought if he was ever going to go this is the way he’d go,” he said."
-------------------

I have a personal list of people, who when they die in an aircraft, I'm not going to be surprised about.
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Old 2nd Jul 2017, 02:18
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Ok Forky, I`m of an open mind re that comment, so what would you do re AF to rectify your perceived flaws? A genuine question btw.
Pinky, its just a personal opinion - based on my 44 years of GA experience. I don't feel a need to justify it, nor will I debate it.

Dr, would you Launch on that day, (as described) in a naturally aspirated machine......???
Section 28, I won't comment on the specifics of this accident as I don't have all the facts, but "a naturally aspirated machine" would NOT be an issue for me.
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Old 2nd Jul 2017, 08:53
  #109 (permalink)  
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
 
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have a personal list of people, who when they die in an aircraft, I'm not going to be surprised about.
Likewise. And if and when they do, I shall grieve.

For the waste of a good Aircraft!

Forky; Fair `nuff.
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Old 2nd Jul 2017, 09:41
  #110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Darwin and PNG
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Why are pilots continuing to make absolutely stupid decisions when it comes to VFR into IMC.

Forget the experience and mission orders, VFR into IMC will kill! No second chances.

I've played this Russian Rollete game in PNG and survived on more than one occasion, f**k knows how but my arse is still pointing to the ground. I've had quite a few good mates killed doing this and it totally saddens me that we pilots are our own worst enemies. Now that I'm older and wiser I look back and sometimes ask myself why I'm still alive given some of the scares that I had.

Cheers,
Plugga
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Old 2nd Jul 2017, 10:16
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Nothing wrong with what your saying about spacial disorientation, however, we don't know if this is the case yet. personally I'm prepared to pay the benefit of the doubt at this point. Given he only just landed, unless there is a witness that can say I could hear it takeoff but I couldn't see it because of the fog, then we have to accept that he didn't, in which case carby icing would be my next choice in those conditions.

If he didn't notice the power degrade on takeoff, it would get worse he could have just simply descended into the fog in the south west corner, the outcome would be exactly the same. The evidence would melt away and we would never know.

Just thought I would offer an alternate sequence of events at this point
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Old 2nd Jul 2017, 10:48
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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With the usual caveats, somatographic illusion, ie acceleration fooling your brain to believe attitude is increasing, seems quite possible to me. You generally crash within a few Km of the DER with this one. Take an a/c with good performance, add a bit of fog and then ..... who knows?
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Old 2nd Jul 2017, 11:10
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Probably jumping the gun a bit here, however why do VFR pilots knowingly go out and fly in potentially know non VMC conditions? I know why, because we aren't strong enough to call it quites when we know we may be pushing the limits. Commercial pressures or mission orders can influence pilots to take unexceptional risks that they wouldn't normally do in an ideal situation.

The current training/re-currency training requirements are obviously totally in adequate in relation to this matter.
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Old 2nd Jul 2017, 11:17
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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Yep: Obviously totally inadequate.
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Old 2nd Jul 2017, 22:48
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Duck Pilot View Post
Probably jumping the gun a bit here, however why do VFR pilots knowingly go out and fly in potentially know non VMC conditions?
IMO the mindset and discipline is exactly the same as knowingly driving over the speed limit in a motorcar on a public road. Everyone knows that you should not do it.
The risk of getting booked by Police/speed camera or having an accident is comparable to a VMC to IMC accident.
Some people do it all the time and never get caught, but some others do and suffer the consequences (big difference in the consequences however).
An instrument rating is like driving on a race track...a controlled environment where there are rules (but people will still cheat) and a demonstrable recurrent standard to maintain. You can go as hard and fast as you like..but fcku up and suffer the consequences (big difference in the consequences however).
In regard to this accident, the cause is unknown. It is a sad and tragic event and I feel for the families and friends of everyone involved.
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Old 2nd Jul 2017, 23:45
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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The reason we do it is because its a natural human factor. Its not so easy to change a plan once you're doing it, there's a level of annoyance if your'e compelled to.

For example your driving your car and come to a detour and complled to drive around side streets only to emerge 100 metres down the road, we do it because we are compelled to but there's a level of annoyance. That level of annoyance is dependant on how much inconvenience is involved.

Take the classic example, you are more than half way through painting the loungeroom wall when the other half comes in and says, oh no that isn't right, it needs to be darker. Your reaction isn't no problem luv, I'll just add some darker tint and start again. is it.

The reaction to a plan change once executed is dependant on the level of inconvenience and whether or not you are compelled to.
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Old 2nd Jul 2017, 23:56
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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Mr Roberts said he had been worried when Mr Gilbert turned to flying in his 70s, but his long-time friend had shrugged it off.

“He said he was never too old. But without beating around the bush, I thought if he was ever going to go this is the way he’d go,” he said."
This is of concern, if true. Previously stated that he was 73 years old when the accident occurred.
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Old 3rd Jul 2017, 00:01
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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...and his passengers 'went' with him.
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Old 3rd Jul 2017, 00:21
  #119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
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It appears that CASA are being forced to legislate against stupidity.

And by our choices, as evidenced by our actions, we appear to need it.

I note that the report has been released for the accident from Moorabbin to King Island about 18 months ago. VMC into IMC, four funerals, and it appears no-one said "Hey this weather looks a bit sh!t. I reckon we give it a miss." Or over the pre-flight coffee "I am not happy with this, count me out." No, I wasn't present in the aircraft or in the hangar so have no knowledge if this was said or discussed, but the flight went ahead, and there were no reports of last minute changes to the passenger list.

It is my understanding from the news reports at the time that all on board were pilots (as always, willing to be corrected on the facts).
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Old 3rd Jul 2017, 01:15
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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Here's an idea: Let's get CASA to legislate so that the prescribed penalty for flying VFR into IMC is death.

Would that change anything? No.

Guess what, outnabout: There's already plenty of laws prohibiting and imposing liability for flying into IMC while operating VFR!

The knee jerk "more regulation" solution only works in the heads of people who think that the most efficient way to change behaviour is to make another law. So typically Australian...

The hundreds of millions that have been wasted on the regulatory reform program would have paid for IFR ratings and renewals for every Australian pilot, plus education, education, education and more education on human factors in aviation.

And if these people had died on the road on the way to or from the aerodrome, there would have been nary a peep on PPRuNe.
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