Can get a job anywhere but Oz
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Location: Australia
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Tigerair:
Australian permanent residency status
Australian CASA issued ATPL
Australian CASA Command Multi Engine Instrument rating, IAP3D and IAP2D endorsements
Valid Australian CASA Class 1 medical
Ability to hold an ASIC
Total Flight Time of ≥ 1500 hours
Minimum of 500 hours Pilot in Command
Minimum 250 hours Multi-engine
Basic IT literacy
ICAO English Language Proficiency Level 4 or above
Virgin:
The minimum flying hours experience and qualifications requirements are outlined below:
Second Officer Opportunities (Australia Based)
1,000 hours Total Experience
500 hours Multi-Engine
500 hours PIC
You will also hold an:
Australian ATPL or Australian CPL plus all Australian ATPL Subjects*
Australian Command Multi-Engine Aeroplane Instrument Rating
Australian Class 1 Medical
English Language Proficiency Level 6
First Officer Opportunities (New Zealand Based)
1,000 hours Total Experience
500 hours Multi-Engine
500 hours PIC
You will also hold an:
Australian ATPL*
Australian Command Multi-Engine Aeroplane Instrument Rating
Australian Class 1 Medical
English Language Proficiency Level 6
ATR Turbo-prop First Officer Positions
1,000 hours Total Experience
500 hours Multi-Engine
500 hours PIC
You will also hold an:
Australian ATPL or Australian CPL plus all Australian ATPL Subjects*
Australian Command Multi-Engine Aeroplane Instrument Rating
Australian Class 1 Medical
English Language Proficiency Level 6
Rex:
We require all applicants for the position of First Officer to possess the following:
• Australian Commercial Pilot Licence or Australian Air Transport Pilot Licence
• Command Multi Engine Instrument Rating
• Civil Aviation Safety Authority Class 1 medical certificate
• Minimum of 2000 hours total flight time
• Minimum of 500 hours Command or ICUS flight time on multi-engine aircraft under the I.F.R
• Australian citizen or permanent residence status.
None of those are any different from UA and all state that the criteria are the minimum requirements.
Thread Starter
I will rephrase my earlier post. I meant to say United make it clear that only having the mins won't make you competitive. UA state that their min flight time required is 1000 turbo prop or jet. That is a polite way saying if you have that there is a high probability of you at least getting an interview. The examples you put up listed company mins but gave no indication as to the experience needed to be competitive.
S2A, in this day and age, yes. Everyone coming up in the industry these days seem to expect that they will be given a job, what they don't realise is that they have to earn it. Just having the minimum experience listed does not mean you have earnt the job.
It becomes even more ridiculous when you go to overseas airlines and they think you are some kind of retard if you have 4000 hours+ and aren't a jet captain.
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Location: Australia
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Don't know how you 'earn' a jet job but obviously the problem is basic economics. Supply & demand. If you need 4000 hours ME PIC experience just to get a right hand seat, well, unfortunately that is what it is. And if its 10 times easier to get a job o'seas, well, then that's what you need to consider if you don't have the 4000 hours.
It is obviously a highly competitive industry and a tough nut to crack. We could double the cost of flight training to halve the number of applicants but then it will only be the super elite silver spoon set that become pilots - I don't want that because I'm not in that category! So I'll put up with it the way it is and do my best to make a career out of it.
It is obviously a highly competitive industry and a tough nut to crack. We could double the cost of flight training to halve the number of applicants but then it will only be the super elite silver spoon set that become pilots - I don't want that because I'm not in that category! So I'll put up with it the way it is and do my best to make a career out of it.
I will rephrase my earlier post. I meant to say United make it clear that only having the mins won't make you competitive. UA state that their min flight time required is 1000 turbo prop or jet. That is a polite way saying if you have that there is a high probability of you at least getting an interview. The examples you put up listed company mins but gave no indication as to the experience needed to be competitive.
What does that mean exactly? How does one 'earn' a jet job in Australia.
The very basic point that anyone applying for a job must understand is that there are often more applicants than there are positions available. This means the company hiring must choose from the applicants and therefore the applicants aren't being compared agains a minimum requirement, all the minimum requirement gives you is the right to apply, the applicant is being compared to all of the other applicants. It doesn't matter one whit if you've got 4000 total including business jet time and single pilot turbo prop if the other applicants have got 5000 hours with multi-crew turbo-prop command time and the company values that time more.
And it can go the other way. A company might prefer someone with less experience for whatever reason.
The point is that if you don't get a job, it's because the company hiring decided that, for whatever reasons, you weren't as good an applicant as the others.
Thread Starter
As well as my original post I think knowing what makes your application competitive is very important. This will affect people's decisions as to what companies they should target on the road to shiny jet holy grail. At least UA are kind enough to give you a carrot.
Say you have just clocked up 1000 hours with 300 multi day vfr . Now you get the chance at being a metro FO (no upgrade to Capt and day ops only). Alternatively you can go be a night IFR freight chieftain driver with a different company.
So what is the better choice? Some will say multi night command and others will say turbine FO. The problem is how on earth do you fill holes in your experience if you don't know where the holes are? I know some companies value night whilst others don't. Some view single turbine higher than multi piston. Others don't.
Say you have just clocked up 1000 hours with 300 multi day vfr . Now you get the chance at being a metro FO (no upgrade to Capt and day ops only). Alternatively you can go be a night IFR freight chieftain driver with a different company.
So what is the better choice? Some will say multi night command and others will say turbine FO. The problem is how on earth do you fill holes in your experience if you don't know where the holes are? I know some companies value night whilst others don't. Some view single turbine higher than multi piston. Others don't.
Last edited by pilotchute; 27th Jun 2017 at 07:17.
I've written this in another thread, but the short version is that minimum requirements are just that. The training and checking manual for those particular airlines probably stipulates those exact requirements. It's not just HR that filter applications. The links that all of these airlines use, automatically do it if you don't meet the minimum. This dates back at the very least to Virgin Blue/Qlink/QF back in the day.
Does it really matter how low they put their requirements? It's their train set and if they want to put a bare CPL on there and have a million applications, then it's their prerogative. They've been doing it for years too - do you think everyone that got into QF or VB back in the early 2000's had 500 multi? You could barely get a job flying a twin out of somewhere nice (like Cairns) without having 3000hrs. Ergo, most (yes, generalising) of the guys/girls had heaps of time NOT JUST MINIMUM EXPERIENCE.
Comparing Australian aviation to the US counterpart is pointless. Case in point the above just to get a twin job.
It's hard, yes. It's not impossible. Keep at it!
Does it really matter how low they put their requirements? It's their train set and if they want to put a bare CPL on there and have a million applications, then it's their prerogative. They've been doing it for years too - do you think everyone that got into QF or VB back in the early 2000's had 500 multi? You could barely get a job flying a twin out of somewhere nice (like Cairns) without having 3000hrs. Ergo, most (yes, generalising) of the guys/girls had heaps of time NOT JUST MINIMUM EXPERIENCE.
Comparing Australian aviation to the US counterpart is pointless. Case in point the above just to get a twin job.
It's hard, yes. It's not impossible. Keep at it!
I've written this in another thread, but the short version is that minimum requirements are just that. The training and checking manual for those particular airlines probably stipulates those exact requirements. It's not just HR that filter applications. The links that all of these airlines use, automatically do it if you don't meet the minimum. This dates back at the very least to Virgin Blue/Qlink/QF back in the day.
Does it really matter how low they put their requirements? It's their train set and if they want to put a bare CPL on there and have a million applications, then it's their prerogative. They've been doing it for years too - do you think everyone that got into QF or VB back in the early 2000's had 500 multi? You could barely get a job flying a twin out of somewhere nice (like Cairns) without having 3000hrs. Ergo, most (yes, generalising) of the guys/girls had heaps of time NOT JUST MINIMUM EXPERIENCE.
Comparing Australian aviation to the US counterpart is pointless. Case in point the above just to get a twin job.
It's hard, yes. It's not impossible. Keep at it!
Does it really matter how low they put their requirements? It's their train set and if they want to put a bare CPL on there and have a million applications, then it's their prerogative. They've been doing it for years too - do you think everyone that got into QF or VB back in the early 2000's had 500 multi? You could barely get a job flying a twin out of somewhere nice (like Cairns) without having 3000hrs. Ergo, most (yes, generalising) of the guys/girls had heaps of time NOT JUST MINIMUM EXPERIENCE.
Comparing Australian aviation to the US counterpart is pointless. Case in point the above just to get a twin job.
It's hard, yes. It's not impossible. Keep at it!
Recently I was in the crew room listening to one of our first officers complaining, his first job after getting his licence was A320 f/o but it would now take him FIVE YEARS to get upgraded. We have had people do it in three but that was in times of expansion along with higher than normal turnover.
Thread Starter
Metro. How does a cadet complaining about upgrade time ad to this thread?
Well as another poster said if they want to list CPL as the min and get 3000 applications that's their business. That just goes to show the lack of common courtesy they show the pilot community.
Well as another poster said if they want to list CPL as the min and get 3000 applications that's their business. That just goes to show the lack of common courtesy they show the pilot community.
Metro. How does a cadet complaining about upgrade time ad to this thread?
Well as another poster said if they want to list CPL as the min and get 3000 applications that's their business. That just goes to show the lack of common courtesy they show the pilot community.
Well as another poster said if they want to list CPL as the min and get 3000 applications that's their business. That just goes to show the lack of common courtesy they show the pilot community.
Metro. How does a cadet complaining about upgrade time ad to this thread?
Thread Starter
People on here say "it's their train set" when it comes to hiring mins but then you complain when they hire cadets?
pilotchute,
I'm not sticking up for cadets here but around the world, and not just in our little bubble in Aus, they are a reality and will continue to be. You can accept it, like accepting the train set minimums and move on, or you can go through life being bitter and hate every cadet that steps onto the flightdeck.
I can't stand entitlement whether it's from a 200hr cadet or some
that used to be on 300k at Ansett in the 80's and whinging he isn't flying a 737 on that money now. I've had the displeasure of both and don't lose sleep over either.
I'm not sticking up for cadets here but around the world, and not just in our little bubble in Aus, they are a reality and will continue to be. You can accept it, like accepting the train set minimums and move on, or you can go through life being bitter and hate every cadet that steps onto the flightdeck.
I can't stand entitlement whether it's from a 200hr cadet or some
that used to be on 300k at Ansett in the 80's and whinging he isn't flying a 737 on that money now. I've had the displeasure of both and don't lose sleep over either.
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HR departments are hard to get through
GA is hard to progress through
GA to RPT is hard to transfer into
Cadetships are hard to secure
I think there is a common theme here and there doesn't seem to be any point complaining about it. Focus on being a good pilot, work hard, and try to enjoy your career however it pans out.
GA is hard to progress through
GA to RPT is hard to transfer into
Cadetships are hard to secure
I think there is a common theme here and there doesn't seem to be any point complaining about it. Focus on being a good pilot, work hard, and try to enjoy your career however it pans out.
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In the mid 1990s I had ATPL, 4400hrs total time including 2500 multi engine command and 700 f/o on a M/E turbine. I applied for a copilot job on a Metroliner which was advertised in Fridays Australian newspaper.
I didn't even get an interview, just a rejection letter stating that the job was for "ENDORSED" pilots only.
Not the best of times to be job hunting.
I didn't even get an interview, just a rejection letter stating that the job was for "ENDORSED" pilots only.
Not the best of times to be job hunting.
