CASA Class G Discussion Paper
The problems are the same as they were during the implementation of NAS. IFR aircraft are using the CTAF for amateur approach control to arrange separation with other IFR flights. This is required because the "approach-service-down-to-1200agl" bit of the simple proven FAA system wasn't implemented anywhere during the time of NAS, and now exists, without any obvious disasters, in only a few locations.
Drunk with pride at resolving IFR issues said pilots extend their skillsets to separation with VFR, and this f@$knitted proposal from CASA is backing that trend.
Drunk with pride at resolving IFR issues said pilots extend their skillsets to separation with VFR, and this f@$knitted proposal from CASA is backing that trend.
Thread Starter
Never been able to bring in low level E like the USA .
One of the reasons is that CASA have done everthing they can to undermine the FAA system where in the US an IFR planned aircraft can climb in VMC in E without a clearance .
In Aus CASA insists that if you have filed an IFR plan and given a taxiing call you are IFR and therefore can’t enter E , even in VMC , without an IFR clearance.
This prevents the fantastic NAS system from working as designed.
Sheer bastardry
One of the reasons is that CASA have done everthing they can to undermine the FAA system where in the US an IFR planned aircraft can climb in VMC in E without a clearance .
In Aus CASA insists that if you have filed an IFR plan and given a taxiing call you are IFR and therefore can’t enter E , even in VMC , without an IFR clearance.
This prevents the fantastic NAS system from working as designed.
Sheer bastardry
I anticipate that Bloggs will take umbrage at you suggesting he engages in amateur approach control. His directions to VFR aircraft in his vicinity are professional!
Lead Balloon=The problem.
Me= The solution.
or...
"Lead (as in "leed"), follow or get the hell out of the way".
Thread Starter
Suggested new name
MMBZ
Massive Mandatory Broadcast Zone
Need also to introduce even more massive fines for any hang gliders or ultralights that fly 19 miles away without a radio!
MMBZ
Massive Mandatory Broadcast Zone
Need also to introduce even more massive fines for any hang gliders or ultralights that fly 19 miles away without a radio!
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Aip gen 3.4-47 "when requesting IFR pick-up [REQUEST IFR PICK-UP]" you can't bag CASA for not permitting a procedure that is still in the books from the time of the NAS debacle. ATC are still trained in its use, (a bit). Nobody ever asks for it. Where is the problem?
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Thread Starter
Spodman, you say “where is the problem” regarding the IFR pick-up. You also state:
Spodman, I can assure you that CASA is responsible. The people in CASA at the time, and ever since, have done everything they can to make sure that the IFR pick-up procedure does not work. That is why, “nobody ever asks for it.”
In the USA you can put in an IFR flight plan, give taxi calls at the airport then climb in VMC, through the Class E airspace, and then call for your clearance when you get into VHF coverage.
In Australia, a few CASA concrete minded people have made sure that can’t happen. They claim that once you have given the taxi call, even if you haven’t communicated to ATC, you are then IFR and you cannot climb into Class E airspace without a clearance ,even in VMC.
Let me make it absolutely clear. The request “IFR pick-up” requires communication to ATC. The US FAA system does not. It is completely different, and CASA so far has prevented Class E climb from working properly.
That is one of the reasons why no one wants the Class E to be lowered.
In the USA, when VMC exists, Class E is basically identical to Class G. Sensible pilots simply take off as they would in Australia today, and pick up the clearance before they get to FL180.
“You can’t bag CASA for not permitting a procedure that is still in the books…”
In the USA you can put in an IFR flight plan, give taxi calls at the airport then climb in VMC, through the Class E airspace, and then call for your clearance when you get into VHF coverage.
In Australia, a few CASA concrete minded people have made sure that can’t happen. They claim that once you have given the taxi call, even if you haven’t communicated to ATC, you are then IFR and you cannot climb into Class E airspace without a clearance ,even in VMC.
Let me make it absolutely clear. The request “IFR pick-up” requires communication to ATC. The US FAA system does not. It is completely different, and CASA so far has prevented Class E climb from working properly.
That is one of the reasons why no one wants the Class E to be lowered.
In the USA, when VMC exists, Class E is basically identical to Class G. Sensible pilots simply take off as they would in Australia today, and pick up the clearance before they get to FL180.
In the USA, when VMC exists, Class E is basically identical to Class G. Sensible pilots simply take off as they would in Australia today, and pick up the clearance before they get to FL180.
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Sorry. My submission to CASA will AGAIN say "no, no, NO!" No airspace changes, no boundaries, the PROCEDURE is aimed at traffic in the circuit.
Apart from anything else, an IFR with single com would be UNABLE to communicate with ATC in this model. Would be doing amateur FSO-ing, without ATC advisories. DUMB.
Apart from anything else, an IFR with single com would be UNABLE to communicate with ATC in this model. Would be doing amateur FSO-ing, without ATC advisories. DUMB.
Thread Starter
No. Not downgrading
Remaining with the same level of service we have had for 50 years with G. In the US airlines don’t operate in G. Our pilots are skilled at this so why not have both advantages
But it’s that type of emotive speaking that has stopped us gaining the extra safety by the lowering of E inc mandatory transponder that I introduced for VFR!
Remaining with the same level of service we have had for 50 years with G. In the US airlines don’t operate in G. Our pilots are skilled at this so why not have both advantages
But it’s that type of emotive speaking that has stopped us gaining the extra safety by the lowering of E inc mandatory transponder that I introduced for VFR!
In the US airlines don’t operate in G.
E inc mandatory transponder that I introduced for VFR!
Originally Posted by Spodman
an IFR with single com would be UNABLE to communicate with ATC in this model.
Thread Starter
Under ICAO classifications no radio is required for VFR in F and you are totally obsessed with VFR aircraft having mandatory radio.
So certainly not F!
So certainly not F!
Why 20nm CTAF boundaries? Turboprop at max250Kts is 5000ft and 5minutes from circuit area? Air Ambulance at 220kts is 6 to 7min? Why plan for the worst once in a blue moon movement?
In the Bloggs Flight Information Region, Bloggs gives directions as to where and when VFRs report.
Safest procedures in that region!
As I said before, Leed, follow or get the hell out of the way. The rest of us have a job to do.
Like trying to herd cats... the discussion spears off on yet another tangent.
Originally Posted by Dick
Under ICAO classifications no radio is required for VFR in F and you are totally obsessed with VFR aircraft having mandatory radio.
But Bloggs, your flight has no priority over mine.
I suggest that you follow the rules (not yours, but rather the actual ones) or you’re going to get your bottom smacked.
I suggest that you follow the rules (not yours, but rather the actual ones) or you’re going to get your bottom smacked.
What are the rules for determining the priority of flights to and from aerodromes in Class G, Bloggs?
I’m clueless, but you are clue...full?
Being that you are full of whatever it is that’s relevant, you’ll be able to tell us what priority your flight has over VFR flights to and from aerodromes in Class G.
I’m clueless, but you are clue...full?
Being that you are full of whatever it is that’s relevant, you’ll be able to tell us what priority your flight has over VFR flights to and from aerodromes in Class G.