B1900 Operations
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Australia
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I think we will start to see more 1900's (in particular the D) appear in Australia over the next few years with downturn in mining along with the number of 1900D's that are currently available for sale or lease. Given the majority of the 1900D's are 20 years old their prices are starting to fall.
Even the new start up in NSW, Northwest Airlines have selected the 1900D.
Even the new start up in NSW, Northwest Airlines have selected the 1900D.
The 1900D is a very expensive type to operate given its size. There are less expensive alternatives out there that carry more people. It plays a very specific role in hot/high conditions, with all the pax and all the bags, but at a significant cost.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: new zealand
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Really? Can you give an example?
Really? Can you give an example?
*snigger*
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I've flown the 1900D, J31 and the Metro 3/23 and the only one that could carry 19 pax and bags all the time with no limitations was the 1900D. The M23 came close, but you needed water meth once it got hot and high. The M3 could really only carry 16 and like the the M23 you always needed water meth. The reliability of the M23 was better than the M3, but it was never anything like the B1900D.
The J31 while it had a large cabin and a well laid out cockpit like the M3 it really was only a 15-16 seat aircraft. It was a pain to load the bags and like British cars, working on it was a nightmare.
So while the 1900D is the most expensive of the 19 seat aircraft, it is also the only one that is truly a 19 seat aircraft (in all conditions) and you can't beat it's reliability. Which if you want return customers you need an aircraft that reliable and can operate without any limitations.
The J31 while it had a large cabin and a well laid out cockpit like the M3 it really was only a 15-16 seat aircraft. It was a pain to load the bags and like British cars, working on it was a nightmare.
So while the 1900D is the most expensive of the 19 seat aircraft, it is also the only one that is truly a 19 seat aircraft (in all conditions) and you can't beat it's reliability. Which if you want return customers you need an aircraft that reliable and can operate without any limitations.
Numbers I have (from SAAB leasing) for a SAAB 340WT indicates about US$33,000/m for lease, plus insurance (about AUD$20k pa) plus maint and provisions (about USD$500/hour**).
Purchase prices are comparable to a B1900D but with 34 seats.
Fuel burn about 25-30% greater plus cost of Hostie (not just wages but training and C&T system and added approvals from the most feral part of CASA).
Assuming the strips and performance paramaters are suitable for both acft, on a route with growth potential you would quickly move into a cost/benefit grey area between B1900D and SF340B. Once you start using the SF340B the better product offering might just tip the economics out of the grey and into the black.
**maintenance costs are from manufacturer, in 2012 US dollars, and based on US$50/man hour which is a far cry from the AUD$120/hour you'll pay at an Australian Part145 org.
Purchase prices are comparable to a B1900D but with 34 seats.
Fuel burn about 25-30% greater plus cost of Hostie (not just wages but training and C&T system and added approvals from the most feral part of CASA).
Assuming the strips and performance paramaters are suitable for both acft, on a route with growth potential you would quickly move into a cost/benefit grey area between B1900D and SF340B. Once you start using the SF340B the better product offering might just tip the economics out of the grey and into the black.
**maintenance costs are from manufacturer, in 2012 US dollars, and based on US$50/man hour which is a far cry from the AUD$120/hour you'll pay at an Australian Part145 org.
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If you are operating on (or intend to) routes that in time could support an aircraft larger than a 19 seater. Than you can take a chance with the larger aircraft, such as the Saab 340, E120 and J41 and cap the seats (or remove them) and operate the aircraft as a 19 seater. This gives the passenger the larger cabin they all want and with the reduced passengers numbers allows you to carry extra fuel (most cases it would allow round trip fuel) or the carriage of more freight. You just have to wear the extra costs of pilot wages and fuel burn, but they maybe negligible if you get a good lease deal on the larger aircraft, if you can pick up some extra freight and the saving in buying fuel in the big smoke (and tanker it).
When one of the companies I worked looked at a fleet replacement, BAe offered us the J41 for the same lease costs of a 1900D, but not to out done Raytheon came back with a counter offer of no lease payments on 2 1900D's for 12 months. The reason for this offer was they believed once we operated (tried) it, we would see how reliable they were (and there was some passenger appeal) and we would want to keep them.
So there are deals to be done if you push hard enough.
When one of the companies I worked looked at a fleet replacement, BAe offered us the J41 for the same lease costs of a 1900D, but not to out done Raytheon came back with a counter offer of no lease payments on 2 1900D's for 12 months. The reason for this offer was they believed once we operated (tried) it, we would see how reliable they were (and there was some passenger appeal) and we would want to keep them.
So there are deals to be done if you push hard enough.
Numbers I have (from SAAB leasing) for a SAAB 340WT indicates about US$33,000/m for lease, plus insurance (about AUD$20k pa) plus maint and provisions (about USD$500/hour**).
Purchase prices are comparable to a B1900D but with 34 seats.
Fuel burn about 25-30% greater plus cost of Hostie (not just wages but training and C&T system and added approvals from the most feral part of CASA).
Assuming the strips and performance paramaters are suitable for both acft, on a route with growth potential you would quickly move into a cost/benefit grey area between B1900D and SF340B. Once you start using the SF340B the better product offering might just tip the economics out of the grey and into the black.
**maintenance costs are from manufacturer, in 2012 US dollars, and based on US$50/man hour which is a far cry from the AUD$120/hour you'll pay at an Australian Part145 org.
Purchase prices are comparable to a B1900D but with 34 seats.
Fuel burn about 25-30% greater plus cost of Hostie (not just wages but training and C&T system and added approvals from the most feral part of CASA).
Assuming the strips and performance paramaters are suitable for both acft, on a route with growth potential you would quickly move into a cost/benefit grey area between B1900D and SF340B. Once you start using the SF340B the better product offering might just tip the economics out of the grey and into the black.
**maintenance costs are from manufacturer, in 2012 US dollars, and based on US$50/man hour which is a far cry from the AUD$120/hour you'll pay at an Australian Part145 org.
I haven't looked recently, but good, low cycle B1900Ds generally sell for as much as twice the cost of a Saab.
