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Suitable 'Replacement' for a C-172RG...?

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Suitable 'Replacement' for a C-172RG...?

Old 15th Mar 2016, 06:21
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Suitable 'Replacement' for a C-172RG...?

I am engaged in a 'discussion' looking for a modern aircraft replacement for a C-172RG.

As I have said in another post,
'It has oft been said that the only replacement for a DC-3, is another DC-3.'

Well, after some research, it seems that the only replacement for a C-172RG, might be another 'lower time' C-172RG.
Nothing else seems to fill the 'niche'....

The 'economics' are becoming fairly well stretched in our search for a 'modern
CSU / retractable' equivalent.

The replacement aircraft type must be suitable for CPL training and be a 'distinct advantage' over the present aircraft.

Any suggestions?

Cheers
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Old 15th Mar 2016, 10:36
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Tecnam P2010 with Garmin 1000 and CSU
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Old 15th Mar 2016, 10:46
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The 2010 doesn't have retracts and I assume they are needed for endo's in this scenario. A Cirrus suffers from the same problem but also with prop too being auto, so you'd need another aircraft in your stable to use either of those as the primary trainer.

Tough decision really !
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Old 15th Mar 2016, 10:55
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Does an Arrow V fit the bill?
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Old 15th Mar 2016, 11:34
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Id wager on a C182. Fits the requirements for the CPL flight test. Every mechanic knows how to service them so keeps the maintenance costs down...
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Old 15th Mar 2016, 11:40
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Pioneer 300 or 400?
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Old 15th Mar 2016, 11:51
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I'd go a Pioneer 400 as well.
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Old 15th Mar 2016, 12:11
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was rethinking my suggestion, the 400 can't lift 4 big heads....then realised, nor can the 172 Rg

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Old 15th Mar 2016, 12:14
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It's easy to just say "how about a Pioneer 400," however what are the downsides of such a change?

- Presumably it is GA LSA registered only? Can you obtain a CPL in an LSA? (just wondering)
- It only has 2 seats because it's LSA and only the kit built version has 4 seats
- It runs a Rotax 100 hp so fuel might be an issue to supply premium for it, otherwise maintenance increases and can a GA school use premium easily?
- It may have a CSU, however it is an electric unit and not hydraulic as a normal CSU old school aircraft would be
- It has a timber spar and as a result a suitably qualified LAME would be needed to sign it off
- It has fabric on the airframe (I think), so again a suitable LAME would be needed to sign it off
- It doesn't have a mixture control (could be a good or a bad point really), but makes it harder to switch someone over to a 210 afterwards

... not a simple replacement.
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Old 15th Mar 2016, 12:27
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You said modern, not much out there that retracts but always loved Mooneys.

Mooney International
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Old 15th Mar 2016, 13:31
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This is the sort of puzzle that should be thrown at Burt Rutan.
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Old 15th Mar 2016, 14:36
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Hey Mr 'O',

The Arrow series -
PA-28RT-201 Arrow IV

Four-place, retractable landing gear landplane, Lycoming IO-360-C1C6 engine of 200 hp (149 kW), gross weight 2,750 lb (1,247 kg). First certified on 13 November 1978. Features a T tail.[15]

Doesn't say when the last one was built, but our dear C-172RG is 1981 vintage.

No difference age / technology wise.....

Mr Styx,
Thanks, but the 182RG is really no different from the 172RG as a basic CPL trainer and 'cruising' machine....same era, same technology.

Yeah Jaz, but with a bit less fuel, and a couple of not-so-heavies, its OK

Any more..??

Cheers and Thanks anyway..

Last edited by Ex FSO GRIFFO; 15th Mar 2016 at 14:59.
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Old 15th Mar 2016, 15:14
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Please, please buy the Arrow that shares the same hangar with our fun bird. We have to push it out and in each time that we go flying..


(And that becomes even harder as the Piper's tyres become flatter..)
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Old 15th Mar 2016, 16:04
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Cessna 177RG
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Old 15th Mar 2016, 17:35
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T'ain't easy is it?

The last C-177 I had a go at was in 1969 or thereabouts, there were 2 of them in WA, DZA & DZB, and they 'had limitations'. And yes I know there is a RG model with some improvements, but same problem i.e. vintage and technology...

I'm open to all suggestions.

But now you do begin to see the challenges put to a guy who wants to get a 'modern' 'suitable' CPL trainer which can double as a club rental aircraft for 'general use', and possibly the odd charter...

And this is probably why we still fly 30 - 40 year old aeroplanes.....

Don't blame us, and yes, I'm still searching....

Cheers ....
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Old 15th Mar 2016, 22:33
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In the past couple of years, I have "invested" approx $120K into my C172RG for exactly this reason. The aircraft is a good fit for CPL training, SEA IR and for "hire and fly" and I can't think of a better option that prepares pilots for entering the GA industry as it stands today.

The aircraft is now SIDs compliant (and did require some corrosion work and fuel tank repair), undercarriage sorted with the better MLG actuators. Avionics-wise, it has an Aspen 1000 PFD, JPI EDM 930 and Garmin 750 / 430W as well as ADSB transponder. No vacuum system anymore - the SAI340 quattro saw that off! All integrated in setup by the avionics lads who did it as a complete package, so good enough for those wanting "glass" but in keeping with my preference for a traditional scan for trainees, I've kept a standby ASI, altimeter and VSI in the usual positions around the Aspen. Re-upholstered interior, and a nicely finished panel fascia and the aircraft should now be a good solution for several years to come, with weight savings to boot.

As above, you can get a 172RG quite cheaply - so spend the money on it and I reckon for about a total investment of up to $250K you will have a really good aircraft that fits your intent perfectly. The added bonus is that in "restoring" the aircraft, you get to identify and deal with the hidden gremlins and hopefully avoid them hassling you in the years ahead.
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Old 16th Mar 2016, 01:17
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Given all the money to be made in a flying school and how rich the operators of such establishments are, its a no brainer. Bonanza or Mooney, take your pick.
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Old 16th Mar 2016, 03:19
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Thanks Mr Bear,

We may well go down this track, its marvellous what a new paint job can do...

Bob,
Tch Tch Tch...

Cheers
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Old 16th Mar 2016, 03:30
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The answer is simple,

V35B or F33A (for the sporty look and a few knots) or a A36 with tip tanks and a TAT Turbo IO550.



It is not a direct replacement but if I had to fly around the place in a gutless cut less or the Beech you know what I would choose.
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Old 16th Mar 2016, 03:49
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Oi know Jab,

I had the pleasure of ferrying one 'brand new' A-36 (TYZ) from BK to JT waaayy baaack on New years Day 1969, it may have been the first one in WA, not too sure about that.
Nice machine....BUT.....$$$'s for trng..?

Cheers

Last edited by Ex FSO GRIFFO; 16th Mar 2016 at 04:36.
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