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Reporting Distance as DME/GNSS

Old 17th Feb 2016, 10:30
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.............

Last edited by Radix; 18th Mar 2016 at 02:10.
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Old 17th Feb 2016, 10:46
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Radix
- GNSS is assumed these days
Unless I have set up the Fix page (and which I can't be stuffed doing when I have a nice DME showing me my MILES to the field), I don't have a "GNSS" distance direct to the field.

Originally Posted by Radix
Use Nothing.
Sprouting radials or bearings and miles all with no names is not a smart idea.

If you insist on not saying "miles" then at least say "Thirty One"...
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Old 17th Feb 2016, 12:14
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.............

Last edited by Radix; 18th Mar 2016 at 02:10.
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Old 17th Feb 2016, 22:42
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Originally Posted by Radix View Post
Doesn't matter. Same distance.
Technically it is not, but normally, for the purposes of CTAF calls, it doesn't matter. To illustrate the difference, in case you really don't know, at 6000' AGL and directly above the DME, a DME will display 1NM while the GNSS with the DME as the reference waypoint will display 0NM.
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Old 17th Feb 2016, 23:09
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yes but at a gps distance of 31nm you are 31.016D and nobody cares about the difference...
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Old 18th Feb 2016, 01:23
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Originally Posted by GlenQuagmire View Post
yes but at a gps distance of 31nm you are 31.016D and nobody cares about the difference...
What they said.

If it's an IFR aircraft they now have to have a GPS so it's use in a radio call at a bush CTAF with no DME is superfluous. Keep the call only as long as it needs to be.
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Old 18th Feb 2016, 01:30
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And for the love of god please let us all know that it's nautical miles that you are reporting to stop any confusion with statute miles!

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Old 18th Feb 2016, 02:11
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And whether the estimated times are in local or zulu!

Safety, people.

Safety.
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Old 18th Feb 2016, 02:29
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I think we can simplify the CTAF inbound broadcast requirement to:

Traffic [aerodrome] ABC is [state number] [nautical miles / statute miles / kilometres / other distance units], measured by [GNSS / DME / DR / WAG], [state direction referenced to aerodrome] measured by [DG / Mag Compass / DR / WAG], inbound on descent from [cruising altitude] with altimeter set to [QNH setting] and calibrated to [VFR / IFR] standards, estimating circuit area, by which I mean [overflying / joining crosswind / joining downwind / joining base / joining straight in approach] [nominate runway], at [nominate time] [local / UTC] by [wristwatch / GPS / WAG].

Simple.
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Old 18th Feb 2016, 02:43
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I wonder about this sometimes,






Is it possible that in OCTA "gnss" is just a hangover from Reporting "GNSS" in CTA so that ATC can provide DME based Separation??


that and It sounds really cool

Last edited by Bluemeaway; 18th Feb 2016 at 02:45. Reason: typo
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Old 18th Feb 2016, 02:57
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Just a stranger from another land poking his head in, but up here in Canada we have the same feeling - who cares. By the time I finish the transmission I'll be 5 miles closer.

However, we are told by Ottawa that there is indeed specific phraseology. Should we be reporting distance based on DME we shall use the phrase "30 DME from Sumspot VOR." If, however, the distance is based from GNSS we shall use the phrase "30 miles from Sumspot VOR" (Ref TC AIM COM 3.14.8).

That clears it up without having to say GNSS. I've not ever come across a pilot who uses statue in radio transmissions, so I'm sorry to hear some of you down under may have to deal with that.

Not sure if a bit of different perspective helps.
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Old 18th Feb 2016, 07:15
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Originally Posted by GlenQuagmire View Post
yes but at a gps distance of 31nm you are 31.016D and nobody cares about the difference...
As I said, normally it doesn't matter.
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Old 18th Feb 2016, 08:05
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What are the abnormal circumstances in which it matters?
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Old 18th Feb 2016, 08:12
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It seems the advent of GNSS as the acronym for satellite nav rather than GPS has made it seem a bit sillier than usual.

We used to say '35 DME' or '35 GPS' (which I guess could make a bit of a difference if you're talking to centre who are then giving IFR traffic on you to someone, if the GPS reference point is the ARP and the DME is, well, the DME). In reality though, as has been aptly pointed out, it makes bugger all difference in the grand scheme of things.
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Old 18th Feb 2016, 08:26
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In case anyone's interested in reality...

If someone makes a position report relative to an aerodrome, I'll assume:

- the position information is probably accurate, irrespective of what reference is being used,

- the position information might be 180 degrees wrong, and

- there is other traffic that's either not fitted with VHF, not using it, or on the wrong frequency.
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Old 18th Feb 2016, 08:33
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Devil

Reading the posts on this thread really makes me wonder.....

Fellow Aussie Ppruners; Just what is the problem here that takes so many posts on what is a simple procedure?

When you are inbound to wherever; If it has a DME, you are 'Three zero miles (or three zero DME) DME inbound from..."direction and intentions".'

If you are using a GPS; You are ....'Three zero miles GPS inbound from..etc.'

If it is an airfield with no navaid and you are not using a GPS you are

'Three zero miles inbound from...etc.'

Someone on this forum once posted, I thought at the time somewhat unkindly, that only Aussies could get 'so anal' over trivial bits of procedure. I now can see just what that poster was alluding to.

If my post offends anyone....Tough!
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Old 18th Feb 2016, 09:11
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If you are using a GPS; You are ....'Three zero miles GPS inbound from..etc.'
To be pedantic, it's actually 'three zero miles GNSS'.
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Old 18th Feb 2016, 10:39
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What do I say if I'm referencing an FMC position derived from triple IRS's with GNSS updating?
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Old 18th Feb 2016, 10:46
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon View Post
What are the abnormal circumstances in which it matters?
I don't know. If I said it never mattered, some schlub would come along and find some fringe case where it actually mattered.
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Old 18th Feb 2016, 11:28
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So what do all you experts do, when approaching a CTAF 'drome in South Australia?

"wun seven miles North, four thousand, on descent, estimate circuit LOCAL time zero three"

OR

"wun seven miles North, four thousand, on descent, estimate circuit ZULU time three three
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