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Restoring or Cleaning Windows

Old 31st Aug 2015, 12:42
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Restoring or Cleaning Windows

Evening All,
Looking for some advice on the best product to clean or restore windows in my 182. Main issue is discolouration to rear and a little hazy on sides as parked outdoors. Seems like there are a lot of products with little reviews other than manufacturer promos.
Any advice would be appreciated.
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 12:55
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Window cleaner

Cant remember the name of the product, but its in a blue aerosol can. Contact any boat shop (and I reckon theres a few in your neck of the woods). Better range and possibly better pricing because of their volumes.
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 13:02
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Non-structural windows are owner-replaceable.

Last time I had a similar problem, I took them out, gave it to a plastics fabricator to use as a mould, gave it a bit of a shave with a file and installed it.

Lastly, invest in a good cover. Ones with bungee cords to give a nice tight fit.
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 13:40
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The one glenb mentioned is probably Plexus which is good for everyday use. If you need something for discolouration, Megiure's kits from automotive shops are made to restore modern acrylic headlight covers. My LAME put me on to them.
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 13:46
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Yep, schedule 5 maintenance allows you to do it yourself without a LAME.

I recently did an aircraft repaint and my panel beater accidentally left my doors with windows fitted, lying within a few meters and subsequently over sprayed them quite badly with 2-pak. One was also already quite scratched. I wasn't overly impressed, however he assured me he could remove the paint. Sure enough, none of that fancy micro-mesh gear, he simply used his sheep skin woolen panel beating buff with cutting polish and finishing polish and removed all the paint and some fairly significant scratches. I never thought he would be able to. As much as I tried perspex polishes and Mr Sheen type products, they did squat.
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 14:03
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Might be thinking of VuPlex. If so, you can get it at Bunnings, it's also used to clean outdoor cafe blinds.
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 16:13
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you are talking about a couple of different things here and mixing it all up.

if you want to clean undamaged perspex then wash the grit off with plain water.
after that to get it really clean "Prist" is a foam aerosol cleaner made for aircraft perspex.
spray the foam over the surface and wipe it off with a clean soft cloth.
does a magic job.

restoring degraded perspex is a task for the micro mesh products.
they work well.
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 17:08
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"Prist" is a foam aerosol cleaner made for aircraft perspex
I thought Prist was a jet-fuel anti-icing additive? Plexus is the stuff in the blue bottle.

UTR

Wait - turns out Prist is also a window cleaner - I wonder if its the same stuff as the additive?
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 18:05
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Tooth Paste....macleans is pretty good
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 18:35
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"I wonder if its the same stuff as the additive?"
If it is don't touch it as I understand Prist is carcinogenic.
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 22:39
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Originally Posted by Squawk7700 View Post
Yep, schedule 5 maintenance allows you to do it yourself without a LAME.

I recently did an aircraft repaint and my panel beater accidentally left my doors with windows fitted, lying within a few meters and subsequently over sprayed them quite badly with 2-pak. One was also already quite scratched. I wasn't overly impressed, however he assured me he could remove the paint. Sure enough, none of that fancy micro-mesh gear, he simply used his sheep skin woolen panel beating buff with cutting polish and finishing polish and removed all the paint and some fairly significant scratches. I never thought he would be able to. As much as I tried perspex polishes and Mr Sheen type products, they did squat.
In correct. Shedule 8 for a start. However it's refers you on. Now this is thought with danger if you have an over zealous inspector around. Also you this dose not allow you to remove parts for painting and most certainly dose not allow to manufacture your own parts. I even seen people pulled up for washing an aircraft and not putting it on the m/r as its a maintence action !!!
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 23:00
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Sometime ago I ask a awi about this. His said that its is not what was intended. It was meant to be that a pilot could remove and reinstall a side window as in a high wing Cessna for photo type work. It was not intended for a pilot to remove and replace any side window
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 23:14
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Your right yr right, definitely not permitted. BUT, there is an exemption for folk with a lockable hanger.
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 23:42
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Yep, a big difference between cleaning a window and replacing a window. Any owner that thinks he can make and fit parts to a certified aircraft would have to have rocks in his head.
It makes you wonder about the knowledge and skills level of some of these blokes. As for the hangar elves, well they are the ones that just ruin it for those that are trying to do things correctly.
Fortunately there are not many about but they do exist.

The owner should have the courtesy to keep his maintainer abreast with any maintenance activity and preferably at the earliest possible stage. I would think that most LAME's would be obliging and come up with some good suggestions that keep the costs down.

There are some great products about these days that would clean-up the transparencies but replacement is often the best option.
I see many aircraft logbooks and it is always a shame to encounter a machine with unrecorded maintenance in the logs.
It ruins the aircraft and generally costs well over the top to get sorted.
They would be the same guys that complain about the cost of their maintenance.

For those owners that want accurate logs then put it in the log yourself !
If you aren't prepared to certify for your own work then at least have the courtesy to ring the LAME for advice.

I think a number of people would have their noses out of joint if the aircraft just sprouted a set of new windows overnight. I am sure it would look much nicer however..

Asking here for cleaning products and methods is a good start. There will be owners, and pilots, that have botched a simple cleaning job.
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Old 31st Aug 2015, 23:50
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Thanks for the prompt YR, my typo, should have been an 8.
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Old 1st Sep 2015, 01:14
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And having been in the end of a fatal accident where parts had been replaced by the owner. The only thing that safed us was I was at a good workshop and prove we didn't fit it. Had it been at a smaller workshop that out come may have been different. Even though this part was not part of the accident it was found.
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Old 1st Sep 2015, 09:24
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yr_right, time to read up about Schedule 8.

Schedule 8:
Maintenance that may be carried out on a Class B aircraft by a pilot entitled to do so under subregulation 42ZC(4)
...
6. Replacement of side windows in an unpressurised aircraft.

Note that it does not say MANUFACTURE the window. An aircraft plastics place is the best to do that. A couple hundred dollars each.

Of course you have to put it in the log book. Same if you replace the battery.
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Old 1st Sep 2015, 09:39
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If it is don't touch it as I understand Prist is carcinogenic.
Yes - the fuel additive one definitely is! You need to be VERY careful when handling it.

DF.
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Old 1st Sep 2015, 10:30
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I don't really want to take the thread down the pilot maintenance deviation but I do see many pilots try and do selective reading of the regs.

It happens often and you see many examples on the various internet forums.

Pilots can't change a side window... it is as simple as that.
You need to work to the vibe of it, the gist of it if you like.

If you think it is too good to be true then it probably is.

Now that said you can start looking at the regs with that in mind and see if you an find the out that allows people to do these various tasks.
The Australian regs are not the easiest to navigate about but if you look at the NZ one or even the FAA version you will get a feel for what they are trying to say.
I have done engineering law exams and operated the licence all over the show, they are all remarkably similar in most respects.

What can be possible is it may be ok for a trained and proficient pilot/owner to replace a window, or at least rather to certify for the job.
Indeed that is where the particular task is often found... under the certification section.
Anyone can make a part for an aircraft. Anyone can work on an aircraft, there is generally no rule there. A ten year old girl can make a new window, out of cardboard if she wanted.

If you do selective reading you will soon discover that.
Now, does that pass the vibe test ? Of course not.

Anyone can make a part, possibly even fit it but it all stops there.
Only certain tasks can be certified and the owner can't certify beyond a few preventative maintenance jobs, and only then if he has been mentored and has the tools, books and skills etc.
The fitting and certifying is naturally the realm of the LAME or A&P.
That is commonsense and is indeed the ways the rules are written.
It doesn't matter how many times you see the owner maintenance fallacy repeated on the internet it still doesn't make it any more correct.

No-one can fit any aircraft part without acceptable data. There are no exceptions and certainly no exemptions for an owner.
Yes, if you read up you may well find that a side window may be able to be fitted and certified. Some countries do allow that but in every case they will have provisos that must be met.
I am thinking in terms of skill and experience there but of course the window may even be an STC'd item so we now have another raft of criteria.

I think the important term is 'may' as opposed to 'can'.

I have even had American pilots try and tell me that as an A&P I can do an engine overhaul. They are obviously not living in the real world.
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Old 1st Sep 2015, 10:30
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Originally Posted by AbsoluteFokker View Post
yr_right, time to read up about Schedule 8.

Schedule 8:
Maintenance that may be carried out on a Class B aircraft by a pilot entitled to do so under subregulation 42ZC(4)
...
6. Replacement of side windows in an unpressurised aircraft.

Note that it does not say MANUFACTURE the window. An aircraft plastics place is the best to do that. A couple hundred dollars each.

Of course you have to put it in the log book. Same if you replace the battery.
Think you need to read what I wrote. At no time may you manufacture a window or anything else for an aircraft. It's simple. Yes it states you may replace a window but also read what else it states. Or better what you can't do. Now tell me how you can change a window without removing structure. I can tell you now if you do you will leave yourself wide open for demerit points. Don't say you have not be warned.
A solid rivet is considered structure btw.
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