The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions The place for students, instructors and charter guys in Oz, NZ and the rest of Oceania.

CASA jumping the Gun a bit?

Old 24th Feb 2015, 11:22
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Perth
Posts: 130
CASA jumping the Gun a bit?

CASA just released an information sheet explaining extensions to Part 66 basic exams and implementation of the proposed Small Aircraft Licensing system:

Civil Aviation Safety Authority - CASA Basics available until June 2019 for Part 66 Small Aircraft Licence (SAL)

This seems a bit early given that given that the NPRM for this system just closed (comments not published yet) and anecdotal evidence suggests industry will oppose this system of training;

Civil Aviation Safety Authority - NPRM 1310SS

Is this CASA jumping the gun and releasing its info pack early or are they ignoring industry comments and forging ahead with the Part 66 SAL anyway?
Progressive is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2015, 12:01
  #2 (permalink)  
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Derbyshire, England.
Posts: 4,043
Or, possibly, they are setting up their stall to enable you and everyone else to make comment? Are CASA starting to do it 'your' way?
parabellum is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2015, 13:12
  #3 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Perth
Posts: 130
parabellum I have no idea what you are on about! What exactly is 'my' way?
Progressive is offline  
Old 24th Feb 2015, 20:54
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Aimlessly wandering
Posts: 173
Oh dear, that didn't take long.
50 50 is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2015, 00:38
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: In my Swag
Posts: 495
Looks good to me, recognises GA aircraft are separate from larger aircraft.
Eddie Dean is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2015, 04:14
  #6 (permalink)  
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Derbyshire, England.
Posts: 4,043
Aggressive Progressive - 'Yours' as in the number of people I see on here who are continually complaining that CASA don't listen to them, legislate without taking any notice of 'Your' input, in other words, 'your' way.
parabellum is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2015, 04:15
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NSW
Posts: 427
Thought it is just another level of licencing confusion. You do same exams but get a different outcome. It is further from alignment with EASA which I thought CASA was trying to achieve.

I guess it is just knee jerk reaction to the complaints of the CASA basics ending in two sittings. Last few sittings have been packed with people trying to finish off licences.

The Monopoly that Aviation Australia has on licencing will be hard to break. With QAC shutting it's doors and QIAE been promising a licence outcome forever. The question is what happens when the monopoly fails?

It leaves ex trainees from QAC and QIAE out in the cold. So this SAL system is a way of trying to appease employers and trainees alike.

People wont care until prices rise drastically because you cant find a licenced guy in GA.
Hasherucf is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2015, 04:23
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: YMML
Posts: 2,477
?????

This was the case back in December last year. Talking to the training providers, it was going to business as usual for the next four years. If it is not the case, I certainly would like to know.
OZBUSDRIVER is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2015, 04:41
  #9 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Perth
Posts: 130
Parabellum - not agressive just confused as to what you were originally getting at. I am as democratic as the next and if my input (i did provide one to the NPRM) is ignored in favor of a majority I am OK with that. What I object too is CASA asking for input (via NPRM) but then making decisions (releasing notice of intention to proceed with SAL) without considering or publishing the input they receive.

I get your frustration with naysayers but if you look you will find I tend to support as much as I criticize and anyone who knows me will tell you that I am only interested in quality outcomes for the apprentices/employers and training providers who are so disadvantaged by the poorly designed competency based training system for AME's.

Hasherucf - you are almost right, the new mechatronics/SAL training system has more to do with the Units of Competence required than the exams but the result is the same 2 different qualification to do the same job on different equipment.

Eddie Dean - Although light aircraft are different from heavy what exactly is the difference in SKILLS (not systems knowledge) required for a GA or Airline AME? this is the key question to good training system.

OZBUSDRIVER - PM is on its way......
Progressive is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2015, 04:42
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,942
Folks,
Go to the AMROBA web site to see what they think of the proposal.
Tootle pip!!
LeadSled is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2015, 05:23
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NSW
Posts: 427
Here are the ALAEA thoughts.

http://alaea.asn.au/attachments/arti...on_Nov2014.pdf
Hasherucf is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2015, 09:27
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Singapore
Age: 52
Posts: 69
With QAC shutting it's doors
Are they? I thought they had a strong business.
CAR42ZE is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2015, 10:49
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NSW
Posts: 427
My Bad , Too many abbreviation. I mean't QIAE
Hasherucf is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2015, 10:57
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: The Last Resort
Age: 48
Posts: 154
Old System

Thought the old system was being extended by four years? Aviation Australia and their system is a running joke Just keep the old system for GA problem solved. The shortage of licenses is already blatantly obvious
Oracle1 is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2015, 11:19
  #15 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Perth
Posts: 130
Old system is being extended for 4 years however this does not help:

1) New apprentices enrolling now who will need to do the new system (SAL /mechatronics) as the old system will be gone by the date they complete.

2) Existing 2nd/3rd/4th year GA apprentices who enrolled to do B1/B2 license system because basics were being cancelled before completion of their apprenticeship but are now stuck being unable to get B1.2/1.4/B2 license through this system.

3) TAFE who must now run three concurrent systems: (Aeroskills/mechatronics/Basics) when there are not enough apprentices to fill one classroom in most schools.

Kangan Batman saw the light and did what most TAFEs will end up doing: quit A/C maintenance trianing altogether.
Progressive is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2015, 11:26
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NSW
Posts: 427
Old system is being extended for 4 years however this does not help
Is that the old system or the SAL system?. I don't see any extra exam sittings on the CASA website past May. I am hoping you are correct

The shortage of licenses is already blatantly obvious
Yeah I am about to profit highly off that. Highest hourly rate I've had in ten years

2) Existing 2nd/3rd/4th year GA apprentices who enrolled to do B1/B2 license system because basics were being cancelled before completion of their apprenticeship but are now stuck being unable to get B1.2/1.4/B2 license through this system.
Got two mates in that situation now. Both are in the process of leaving aviation as they cant get a licence outcome.
Hasherucf is offline  
Old 25th Feb 2015, 21:37
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: YMML
Posts: 2,477
From the CASA website under CAR 31 AME link...

However, if you are currently using CASA Basics and SOE for what would have been a small aircraft licence under the CAR 31 licence system, you can continue to use the CASA Basics and SOE pathway until June 2019 to qualify for a small aircraft licence outcome.
That is all I needed to see...son has his SOEs he completed his practical side of apprenticeship, just needs to pass his basic subjects to complete. He only wants to work GA and eventually specialise in restoration work.
OZBUSDRIVER is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2015, 01:51
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 197
Hasherucf, I agree as it is giving old farts like myself beer money into the foreseeable future. But is absolutely tragic for the young ones trying to get into the profession.
Propstop is offline  
Old 26th Feb 2015, 07:54
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: The AUK
Age: 75
Posts: 72
It is further from alignment with EASA which I thought CASA was trying to achieve.
They set out to supposedly achieve that, but have lost their way by trying to reinvent the wheel. The 44 Exclusions, plus the other 3 Additional Privileges, prove that this is indeed the case.
The EASA System is relatively straight forward and will work for GA if CASA would only introduce their original intent of having a CASA B3 Category, but raised the weight limit to 12,500 Lbs. This would have superseded the previous Groups 1, 5, and 6 or thereabouts. One has to ask as to how hard can it really be for them to sit around the table with Industry peers and thrash it out to an acceptable and workable framework?
EASA now have a B3, but it only has a 4000 Lb weight limit at the moment.
As long as there is this ridiculous system of having the CAR 1988 running in parallel with CASR 1998 and the subsequent Amendments, it is hard to envisage a smooth running ship. Other National Authorities have managed to have a relatively clean break when changing their System, and their use of Transitional Provisions took some of the pain out of the changes.
Look across the Tasman, it works quite well there.

Keep the Faith, and Fight the good Fight. Regards to ya all, Big E.
The Big E is offline  
Old 27th Feb 2015, 02:32
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: South Australia
Posts: 2
Gday team,

I'm an AME (mech) student from Parafield TAFE SA (now a CASR 147 org).

I've been advised that our Training College has been teaching to Diploma level since 2007 in anticipation of the June 2015 deadline (transition to CASR 66 system) in regard to apprentices obtaining their licence.

I'm also under the impression that if you showed up, you would get RPL from any other RTO (in AUS) and be able to spend a year to obtain your Diploma for a licence outcome.

Maybe that helps some, maybe it doesn't
TheApothecary is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.