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Part 61 - Airline cyclics and pvt flying

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Part 61 - Airline cyclics and pvt flying

Old 29th Jan 2015, 23:54
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Part 61 - Airline cyclics and pvt flying

I was alerted to this one recently.

Is it everyone's belief that I have this correct in that if you are an airline pilot and have completed your IR renewal, cyclic or line check (insert company SOP here), that you are then issued a new part 61 licence, however you have NOT been checked out on your private aircraft (or perhaps a hired 172) and therefore you are NOT licenced to fly "privately?"




For Airline Pilots that own/operate light single/twin engine fixed/rotary wing aircraft

a) the holder is successfully participating in an operator’s training and checking system for an operation in an aircraft of the type covered by the rating; - this actually specifies it will only give Flight Reviews for the type of the aircraft that it was done under the training and checking system (Cyclic Programme). other rules apply for the other class/types


61.800 Limitations on exercise of privileges of pilot type ratings—flight review
(1) The holder of a pilot type rating is authorised to exercise the privileges of the rating as the pilot in command of an aircraft only if the holder has a valid flight review for the rating.
(2) For subregulation (1), the holder has a valid flight review for the rating during the period beginning when the holder successfully completes a flight review for the rating in accordance with subregulation (3) and ending:
(a) at the end of the 24th month after the month in which the holder completes the review; or
(b) if:
(i) the holder already has a valid flight review for the rating (the previous flight review) when the holder successfully completes the flight review; and
(ii) the validity of the previous flight review is due to expire within 3 months after the holder successfully complete the flight review;
at the end of the 24th month after the validity of the previous flight review expires.
(3) For subregulation (2), the flight review must be conducted in:
(a) if the aircraft covered by the rating is a type of single engine helicopter prescribed by an instrument under regulation 61.063:
(i) a helicopter of the type covered by the rating; or
(ii) an approved flight simulator for that type of helicopter; or
(iii) a type of single engine helicopter prescribed by the instrument as equivalent to the type covered by the rating; or
(iv) an approved flight simulator for that type of helicopter; or
(b) in any other case:
(i) an aircraft of the type covered by the rating; or
(ii) an approved flight simulator for that type of aircraft.
(4) For subregulation (2), the holder is taken to have successfully completed a flight review for the rating if the holder:
(a) passes the flight test for the rating; or
(b) passes the flight test for an operational rating in an aircraft of the class covered by the type rating; or
(c) completes flight training for a design feature endorsement in an aircraft of the class covered by the type rating; or
(d) successfully completes:
(i) an operator proficiency check that covers operations in the type; or
(ii) a proficiency check mentioned in subregulation (5) in an aircraft of the type or an approved flight simulation training device for the purpose.
(5) For subparagraph (4)(d)(ii), the proficiency checks are as follows:
(5) For subparagraph (4)(d)(ii), the proficiency checks are as follows:
(a) an instrument proficiency check;
(b) a night vision imaging system proficiency check;
(c) an aerial application proficiency check;
(d) an instructor proficiency check;
(e) an examiner proficiency check.
(6) For subregulation (1), the holder is taken to have a valid flight review for the rating if:
(a) the holder is successfully participating in an operator’s training and checking system for an operation in an aircraft of the type covered by the rating; and
(b) the operator holds an approval under regulation 61.040 for the system for this subregulation and operations in aircraft of that type.
Note: For general rules in relation to flight reviews, see regulation 61.400.
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Old 29th Jan 2015, 23:59
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Thanks for posting all that dribble. It's the laxative I needed.
What a bore this game has become.
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 00:38
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It's a bloody joke. A bus driver doesn't need a proficiency check to drive his own Lamborghini...
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 00:46
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Is it everyone's belief that I have this correct in that if you are an airline pilot and have completed your IR renewal, cyclic or line check (insert company SOP here), that you are then issued a new part 61 licence, however you have NOT been checked out on your private aircraft (or perhaps a hired 172) and therefore you are NOT licenced to fly "privately?"
Yes, that is my belief.

That, my airline cyclic sims do not cover me for my private single-engine 2 year flight review requirement.

What about take-off and landing recency? Is that similarly not covered?

PG
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 01:10
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It's obviously CASA's response to all those pesky airline pilots who were crashing light aircraft in their off time. You know, for safety and all of that.
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 01:12
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It has been that way in NZ part 61 since its inception however there are differences from the CASA rule.

In NZ, CPL holders subject to company "competency demonstration" are exempted in the rules from BFR for private flying VFR. However if your company has a cyclic training/competency program then your Instrument Rating is not valid outside of the company/type aircraft. If you want to use your IF rating privately then you will need a separate IF renewal.

The reason is that the cyclic program does not cover all the IF renewal requirements as it is aircraft specific.

Last edited by c100driver; 30th Jan 2015 at 01:43.
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 01:12
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Angel

You are quite correct you will need to complete a separate PC for any rating you wish to use outside your company.
The only benefit of being in a cyclic program is that you will notice there will be no renewal date on your instrument rating. There will be a note on P17 under general remarks indicating you are in a cyclic program for the Aircraft Type you are current on. This means you will never need a reprint unless you are doing something outside your company or get a new type rating.
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 01:40
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So once your cyclic takes place, you need to book in for your AFR ASAP, otherwise you're unlicenced.

Certainly something to be aware of
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 01:43
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Excellent, I don't need to get a licence reprint each year.

But:

If I wish to fly a single I need to do a BFR, ohh dear - it has just got dark, I need that BFR to be done at night, crap - I was going to borrow a mates Seneca, I need another BFR in a twin, at night? Pity I cannot fly that floatplane off to a good fishing spot as I need to do a BFR in a floatplane!


Just how many Airline pilots have plummeted into the ground in lighties in the last whenever?

You wonder why people just give up!

- or just ignore it all.

Yeah, I know they changed BFR to AFR, got to do something to make their jobs meaningful!

...
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 02:29
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Oh and don't forget that if you want fly your mate's tecnam that's ultralight regod, you'll need to do another BFR (although this has always been the case).
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 04:35
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Actually, you can do both Reviews together provided the checking instructor is current in both GA and RAAus. happy days,
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 04:47
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Actually, you can do both Reviews together provided the checking instructor is current in both GA and RAAus. happy days,
Unless I am mistaken, not quite..... the GA AFR covers you for RA-Aus You are probably referring to doing a GA AFR in an RA-Aus aircraft, whereas we are discussing using a GA AFR for RA-Aus.


Oh and don't forget that if you want fly your mate's tecnam that's ultralight regod, you'll need to do another BFR (although this has always been the case).
Covered above.
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 05:26
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simple guys,
get a FAA licence, buy an FAA certified aircraft and give the finger to CAsA.
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 07:39
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Actually, you can do both Reviews together provided the checking instructor is current in both GA and RAAus. happy days,
Well bugger me, that has changed. I must admit my RAAus licence lapsed about 7 years ago. That is a slight win
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 11:03
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simple guys,
get a FAA licence, buy an FAA certified aircraft and give the finger to CAsA.
Do you have to fly to the US to do renewals?
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 12:15
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So, I did my last SIM check in the A330 ( before the Part 61 rule change ) around July 2014.

Therefore I'm legal to fly a light Aircraft for 2 years after that date ( until July 2016 ) THEN I'll need to do a AFR in the PA28 and get a new Part 61 Licence before I can fly again.

That is correct isn't it?
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 19:11
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That sounds correct although are you doing an IR renewal before 2 years or are you all good?
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 20:23
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So, I did my last SIM check in the A330 ( before the Part 61 rule change ) around July 2014. Therefore I'm legal to fly a light Aircraft for 2 years after that date
No, I don't think so. The old law has ceased to exist, and only Part 61 exists now. Flight reviews done under the old system are still valid for two years, as specified in Part 61. But you didn't do a flight review. Therefore Part 61, from the first day it was effective, required you to do an on-type review. I don't see anything in Part 61 that specifies grandfather rights for old privileges.



On another note... I couldn't understand all that CASA legalese. So I went through it, changing it into English grammar & punctuation. Here's how it would be written under an overseas Part 61:

61.800 Flight Reviews

(1) A pilot in command must have a valid flight review.

(2) The 24 month rule:
A flight review is valid from when it is completed, until the end of the 24th month after the month in which it was completed. If the review is completed within three months of expiry of the previous flight review, the expiry date becomes the end of the 24th month after the expiry of the previous review.

(3) Validity restricted to a specific type or class:
The flight review must be conducted in an aircraft of the same type as specified in paragraph (a) or (b). (For this regulation, an aircraft is deemed to be of equivalent type if it falls within the class of aircraft covered by the rating.)
(a) If the aircraft covered by the rating is a type of single engine helicopter prescribed by regulation 61.063, the review must be conducted in a helicopter of the type covered by the rating, or a type deemed by CASA to be equivalent. It is also acceptable to use an approved flight simulator, for a helicopter of the same or equivalent type.
(b) For any other type of aircraft, the review must be conducted in an aircraft of the type covered by the rating, or an approved flight simulator for that type of aircraft.

(4) Other training or tests satisfying this regulation:
For subregulation (2), the holder is taken to have completed a flight review for the rating if the holder passes the flight test for the rating, or passes the flight test for an operational rating in the aircraft type, or completes flight training for a design feature endorsement on the aircraft type, or completes an operator proficiency check covering operations on type.
The holder is also taken to have completed a flight review if any of the following proficiency checks have been successfully completed in an aircraft of the same type or an approved flight training device:
(a) an instrument proficiency check;
(b) a night vision imaging system proficiency check;
(c) an aerial application proficiency check;
(d) an instructor proficiency check;
(e) an examiner proficiency check.

(5) Cyclic training & checking:
A pilot in command is taken to have a valid flight review if the pilot is successfully participating in an operator’s training and checking system for an operation in an aircraft of the type covered by the rating. However, the training and checking system must be approved under regulation 61.040.

Note: For general rules in relation to flight reviews, see regulation 61.400.
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 20:59
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What about this one, I did a check ride with an instructor in a Cessna 172 in January 2014. In November I did my IR through my companies cyclic program and now have a Part 61 licence. Can I still fly the C172?
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Old 30th Jan 2015, 23:06
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ACMS, I am in the same situation as you. I have been verbally advised that 24 months from your last pre-Part 61 sim ride is OK (then have to do an AFR).

I have emailed CLARC on this and other related issues (last OCT) and am still waiting for a reply.
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