Flying School feedback shutdown
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Flying School feedback shutdown
Understandably the Mods just closed a post, with a potential new Pilot inquiring about a school recommendation.
He had only a very small number of Posts, starting out in the industry, with no idea of the PPrune history behind that decision to close the post. He joined in the last two weeks. No doubt an enthusiastic starter. An unfortunate early experience in the industry.
Anyway, "Radiodude" or any other potential starter out there. A tip. Narrow your decision down to two schools. Approach each of the CFIs independently on different weeks over your next holiday. Have a BAK textbook in hand. Ask if you could drop yourself in the school for a week for some quiet study of your book, in a conducive atmosphere. After you invest a week in each school, you will know. Your discussions with students undertaking training, observing how staff interact with students, listening how maintenance issues are being handled, are the students getting treated with respect, are they being briefed etc, etc.
More often than not. One school will stand out. It could well be a different school for different people. Trust me, there are a lot worse ways to invest a couple of weeks, and you will have a good head start on your Ground Studies. Good Luck mate!
He had only a very small number of Posts, starting out in the industry, with no idea of the PPrune history behind that decision to close the post. He joined in the last two weeks. No doubt an enthusiastic starter. An unfortunate early experience in the industry.
Anyway, "Radiodude" or any other potential starter out there. A tip. Narrow your decision down to two schools. Approach each of the CFIs independently on different weeks over your next holiday. Have a BAK textbook in hand. Ask if you could drop yourself in the school for a week for some quiet study of your book, in a conducive atmosphere. After you invest a week in each school, you will know. Your discussions with students undertaking training, observing how staff interact with students, listening how maintenance issues are being handled, are the students getting treated with respect, are they being briefed etc, etc.
More often than not. One school will stand out. It could well be a different school for different people. Trust me, there are a lot worse ways to invest a couple of weeks, and you will have a good head start on your Ground Studies. Good Luck mate!
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I don't understand why we in Aust are apparently such delicate flowers in this regard. Discussions about the merits of individual establishments seem to be part and parcel of the UK PPrune threads. The smug 'find out for yourself' in response to a newcomers's enquiry always leaves me cold. There will usually be positive and negative comments, but that's part of life in the internet age. Restaurateurs seem to cope.
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Negative comments can lead to legal threats against Pprune.
Positive comments are often blatent advertising.
Any "Which Flying School" threads will be closed for those reasons.
If you think the decision is wrong all of you are free to start your own internet forum.
Positive comments are often blatent advertising.
Any "Which Flying School" threads will be closed for those reasons.
If you think the decision is wrong all of you are free to start your own internet forum.
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So why can't this website indemnify itself and say they are not responsible for what is posted? Seems to work in many other situations in the world.
No legal action against pprune over the discussion of pay rates, and working life experiences etc that all can similarly reflect good and badly on an employer? That all gets discussed here too.
No legal action against pprune over the discussion of pay rates, and working life experiences etc that all can similarly reflect good and badly on an employer? That all gets discussed here too.
90% of the time these threads start up, along comes half a dozen freshly registered users offering their "advice" about how great (or not) the school in question is. Inevitably these users are employees of the school or the same person registering multiple times.
There is no value in receiving advice from these users.
There is no value in receiving advice from these users.
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There is no value in receiving advice from these users.
I disregard any posts re how good/bad any Flying School is and read them for 'entertainment' value only!
I find it amusing to try to work out who the employee/disgruntled student or ex employees are.
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DeltaT like I said, if you think it should be OK then by all means start your own pilot forum.
In the meantime these kinds of threads will be closed.
Squawk7700 has pretty much nailed it!
In the meantime these kinds of threads will be closed.
Squawk7700 has pretty much nailed it!
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CFI:
Indeed he did. The well reasoned argument was better than:
Set the standard for the discussion and maintain the moral high ground when you have to deal with the trolls.
Squawk7700 has pretty much nailed it!
If you think the decision is wrong all of you are free to start your own internet forum
APS / LOP is not-for-profit.... There's your reason.
Someone is actually doing something beneficial for the industry and not profiting from it
Someone is actually doing something beneficial for the industry and not profiting from it
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Flying Schools are Flying schools....well almost.
Sure they can all offer different environments, but the most important things to look for are
1) Instructor Stability...can I fly with the same person each week, or am I going to be shuffled.
2) Can I relate to the instructor? If you think the instructor is a knob, then what you will learn each flight will slow you down.
The greatest School on the planet may not have an instructor that you can work with. (same goes for Schools/Teachers...the younger members here thinking about it could probably relate better than us old fogies)
I moved schools after completion of my training. When I next met with the owner of the original school he asked me straight about why I moved....I told him straight as well, that it was all about the instructor. When I told him who had taken over my training, his response was that he wished that person worked for him, and that he was probably one of the few suited to my personality ....
glenb makes some very valid points as well....not all schools will accommodate students lounging around to study. some will encourage it, others will let it happen, and hang around qualified pilots will help out just to talk aeroplanes...as what happens where i fly now
Sure they can all offer different environments, but the most important things to look for are
1) Instructor Stability...can I fly with the same person each week, or am I going to be shuffled.
2) Can I relate to the instructor? If you think the instructor is a knob, then what you will learn each flight will slow you down.
The greatest School on the planet may not have an instructor that you can work with. (same goes for Schools/Teachers...the younger members here thinking about it could probably relate better than us old fogies)
I moved schools after completion of my training. When I next met with the owner of the original school he asked me straight about why I moved....I told him straight as well, that it was all about the instructor. When I told him who had taken over my training, his response was that he wished that person worked for him, and that he was probably one of the few suited to my personality ....
glenb makes some very valid points as well....not all schools will accommodate students lounging around to study. some will encourage it, others will let it happen, and hang around qualified pilots will help out just to talk aeroplanes...as what happens where i fly now
I'd have thought it would be a bit unwise for anyone to pick a school based on something an anonymous stranger has said on an internet forum.
Each school has its own style and the stude needs to go there and look around to see if they think the environment suits them.
I've seen those sorts of threads deteriorate into some really nasty rhetoric.
Each school has its own style and the stude needs to go there and look around to see if they think the environment suits them.
I've seen those sorts of threads deteriorate into some really nasty rhetoric.
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So why can't this website indemnify itself and say they are not responsible for what is posted? Seems to work in many other situations in the world.
The PPRuNe publisher is domicile in California and litigant use the simple and inexpensive SLAPP Subpoena to discover PPRuNe user details - as some PPRuNe user have discovered to their detriment. The Moderators have a duty of care to our users and a responsibility to the PPRuNe publishers.
So why can't this website indemnify itself and say they are not responsible for what is posted?
I'd have thought it would be a bit unwise for anyone to pick a school based on something an anonymous stranger has said on an internet forum.
I'd have serious concerns for the gullibility of any person that took seriously any advice about flying training posted on an anonymous internet bulletin board! If anyone thinks this anonymous web site is 100% credible in it's flying training advice, I have a very nice bridge for sale in Sydney, on special this week.......
Make it that posts can only be made after x time (days?) from new registration
So why is it permissible for the LoP zealots to advertise their course in threads?
No doubt these people provide an excellent service and forum for pilots to learn more about their aircraft engines, but please, not through PPRuNe.
Our official PPRuNe advice: read the aircraft manufacturers operating manual.
PPRuNe and it's Mods can't keep all the people happy all the time but we do try to keep some people happy some of the time. And some people unhappy most of the time!
Finally and philosophically the Professional Pilots Rumour and News (PPRuNe) Australia, New Zealand and the Pacific forums are specifically and primarily for news and reliable rumours with credibility and integrity, by and for the interest of professional pilots operating in this region. We have other forums dedicated to tech junkies, newbies, plane spotters etc.
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Tail wheel, thanks for taking the time to set down a detailed reply. I understand the points you're making and, in the limit, it's indeed a publisher's right to pursue nearly any policy they like. At the same time, if the feedback of readers is of any interest at all, there is a bit recorded here.
One point that does still puzzle me is the apparent difference between the UK and Australian threads. I can occasionally read posts describing the relative merits of the 3 flying schools at the Lower Spewing (or whatever) airfield, but not similar comparisons at Jandakot, Bankstown etc. Even half-intelligent readers of internet material, or newspaper or other print reviews, understand that all comments are to be calibrated against a range of possible self-interest factors. But providing they are fair comment, it's all grist for the mill. It is useful to have this sort of commentary in the public domain, if only to balance and complement the stereotypical, cloying "learning to fly" pulp served up by the aviation magazines.
It's always "reader beware" of course but, as one UK poster noted, he's a novice pilot but not a novice human. No reason in principle why fair comparative comment about the basics of the flying training business should not be available, if not on PPRune, then elsewhere.
Re-reading your post, I wondered if you're saying that such a thread would work, but not in the Aust/NZ area of PPrune. The reminder about material aimed at professional pilot's is well taken but of course that boundary is pushed in other directions on many, many occasions.
One point that does still puzzle me is the apparent difference between the UK and Australian threads. I can occasionally read posts describing the relative merits of the 3 flying schools at the Lower Spewing (or whatever) airfield, but not similar comparisons at Jandakot, Bankstown etc. Even half-intelligent readers of internet material, or newspaper or other print reviews, understand that all comments are to be calibrated against a range of possible self-interest factors. But providing they are fair comment, it's all grist for the mill. It is useful to have this sort of commentary in the public domain, if only to balance and complement the stereotypical, cloying "learning to fly" pulp served up by the aviation magazines.
It's always "reader beware" of course but, as one UK poster noted, he's a novice pilot but not a novice human. No reason in principle why fair comparative comment about the basics of the flying training business should not be available, if not on PPRune, then elsewhere.
Re-reading your post, I wondered if you're saying that such a thread would work, but not in the Aust/NZ area of PPrune. The reminder about material aimed at professional pilot's is well taken but of course that boundary is pushed in other directions on many, many occasions.
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Thank you Tailwheel.
My reason for being somewhat brusque about this is that although people have agreed to the terms and conditions when they join Pprune, whenever a thread like that is moderated, and it will always need moderating, there are always going to be people wailing about censorship and their imagined rights to free speech.
So I usually pre-empt that by telling people they can say what they like if they take full responsibility for it ie become their own publisher of their own internet forum.
My reason for being somewhat brusque about this is that although people have agreed to the terms and conditions when they join Pprune, whenever a thread like that is moderated, and it will always need moderating, there are always going to be people wailing about censorship and their imagined rights to free speech.
So I usually pre-empt that by telling people they can say what they like if they take full responsibility for it ie become their own publisher of their own internet forum.
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You are correct CFI. If a thread is moderated, deleted or locked, there are extremely good reasons why which may not always be apparent to the users. Often ... mostly ... if is not possible for a Mod to explain the reasons why.
tecman. Yes, some "what school" threads survive in the appropriate flying training PPRuNe forum but generally not in any regional forum. Also, the UK forums have not had the problems of multiple "personalities" and trolls that we've experienced in the Australian forums.
tecman. Yes, some "what school" threads survive in the appropriate flying training PPRuNe forum but generally not in any regional forum. Also, the UK forums have not had the problems of multiple "personalities" and trolls that we've experienced in the Australian forums.
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Perhaps the pprune server can be relocated to the Departure lounge of a Russian airport? I think there is someone called Snowden who might be looking for a job there.
Or take on the hydra technique of some torrent sites, shut one and two will start up?
But yes, thank you for the explanation, it is interesting to learn about such things.
What is the legal stand point if a post is started with "In my opinion..." -Does that then not separate it from making out to be fact? and no come back on the website?
Or take on the hydra technique of some torrent sites, shut one and two will start up?
But yes, thank you for the explanation, it is interesting to learn about such things.
What is the legal stand point if a post is started with "In my opinion..." -Does that then not separate it from making out to be fact? and no come back on the website?
Last edited by DeltaT; 30th Jan 2015 at 08:22.
Fair points in the main, but one of the most beneficial sides of bulletin boards like these is the free and honest exchange of information.
How do trip advisor and the like get away with having people put frank statements about their impressions of various tours and hotels, if the website owner is somehow responsible for what's said by individuals?
Obviously it's a fine line, but I reckon if a flying school's worth its salt it should welcome criticism and/or plaudits as appropriate. The pool of individuals involved in Australian flying is small enough that if attempts are made to sling mud, the truth will surface quickly enough.
How do trip advisor and the like get away with having people put frank statements about their impressions of various tours and hotels, if the website owner is somehow responsible for what's said by individuals?
Obviously it's a fine line, but I reckon if a flying school's worth its salt it should welcome criticism and/or plaudits as appropriate. The pool of individuals involved in Australian flying is small enough that if attempts are made to sling mud, the truth will surface quickly enough.