VH-PFT Recovered South East Tasmania
FRWATPLX2, I have let your post slide including your amusing play with words. Instead I have answered your PM.
What I will say though is that I don't need to answer any of your questions and doing so would be merely speculation. I don't normally comment on any accident thread, regret commenting on this one and am moving on. I hope you can too.
What I will say though is that I don't need to answer any of your questions and doing so would be merely speculation. I don't normally comment on any accident thread, regret commenting on this one and am moving on. I hope you can too.
CASA-approved Ops Manual
approved - no
accepted - yes
When someone loses their life, we naturally look for answers and often in places where there's no answer. We also look to blame and so it goes.
If you are directly/personally involved with this, best to stay away. Time will improve things.
This looks pretty straightforward to a distant observer, but il keep my opinions to myself other than to say that at that altitude you don't have time to recoverfrom anything either pilot induced or mechanical.
If you are directly/personally involved with this, best to stay away. Time will improve things.
This looks pretty straightforward to a distant observer, but il keep my opinions to myself other than to say that at that altitude you don't have time to recoverfrom anything either pilot induced or mechanical.
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Thanks for the PM(s) FRW.
OK, I will bite. Don't talk to me about operating low level. I do little else. Not 50ft or 100ft, more like 10ft, all day every day and some nights. Risk assess that.
Things the ATSB will not be able to rule out may include things like -
Incapacitation of either crew member, subtle or sudden.
Inadvertent control input by the second crew member.
Inadvertent fouling of the controls by something mission specific.
Heck, they may have even taken an albatross through the windscreen for all we know.
I agree, the 172 is not an aircraft known to bite, so maybe something really did go wrong.
Sadly, we will likely never know.
Take solace, you are not the first person to know someone that has not come back.
OK, I will bite. Don't talk to me about operating low level. I do little else. Not 50ft or 100ft, more like 10ft, all day every day and some nights. Risk assess that.
Things the ATSB will not be able to rule out may include things like -
Incapacitation of either crew member, subtle or sudden.
Inadvertent control input by the second crew member.
Inadvertent fouling of the controls by something mission specific.
Heck, they may have even taken an albatross through the windscreen for all we know.
I agree, the 172 is not an aircraft known to bite, so maybe something really did go wrong.
Sadly, we will likely never know.
Take solace, you are not the first person to know someone that has not come back.
Last edited by currawong; 15th May 2015 at 09:53. Reason: spelling
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10 feet
currawong OK, I will bite. Don't talk to me about operating low level . . . more like 10ft, all day every day and some nights.
flying a Cropduster?
Maybe Border Protection.
If so, hopefully the folks in the rusty boats will duck their heads, if you're flying at 10 feet above the water. Thus, I am guessing that would be a wee exaggeration. I have known a couple Border Protection guys who thought it was funny, citing the time they were flying a multi-engine turboprop, in known icing conditions (though they were unaware), couldn't figure out what the white stuff was flying by them, until they descended beneath the base of the clouds and saw snow on the hilltops, so not a lot of common sense, training, experience or background to be operating those aircraft types, to the point they would have never considered turning on the Engine Anti-ice, or Leading Edge De-icing Boots. I suppose that crew never heard about the American Eagle ATR crash, due to icing, 31 October 1994.
You are certainly not military . . . not at 10 feet, AGL or AHO.
I have flown my share of Low Level and lower still, at Nap-of-the-Earth, in formation flight, as well, long before there was a CASA Endorsement for it.
Possibly you are a UAV/Drone pilot?
Incapacitation of either crew member
Inadvertent control input by the second crew member.
Inadvertent fouling of the controls by something mission specific.
mission specific -?-
even taken an albatross through the windscreen
Last edited by FWRWATPLX2; 16th May 2015 at 11:12.
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FRWATPLX2 - give it a rest please. ( and get yourself a simpler handle too)
and do not be so callow to be so rude to Aussie Bob
you should cease to post here if you cannot be more moderate
if you are grieving take that grief to some private place
NB It has been the norm for years for the planes and choppers covering the Sydney -Hobart to be frequently at mast head height
GT of the ABC crew was a past master too sad he and two others went west (elsewhere that was) were he here to comment on this thread he'd set a few idle speculators straight
I don't normally comment on any accident thread, regret commenting on this one and am moving on. I hope you can too.
FRWATPLX2 - give it a rest please. ( and get yourself a simpler handle too)
and do not be so callow to be so rude to Aussie Bob
you should cease to post here if you cannot be more moderate
if you are grieving take that grief to some private place
NB It has been the norm for years for the planes and choppers covering the Sydney -Hobart to be frequently at mast head height
GT of the ABC crew was a past master too sad he and two others went west (elsewhere that was) were he here to comment on this thread he'd set a few idle speculators straight
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FRW, quite happy to continue the conversation in the public forum.
Yes, crop dusting.
I like your resume. You're my hero now too.
Given your experience, I would have thought you would have come across this sort of thing before. Again, we all sympathize for your loss.
Yes, I have seen one. I used to work in them once.
Have you ever tried what you hypothesize in one?
Unlike all the different equipment you used to fly, these are pretty hard to crash.
Your last point is somewhat accurate in some quarters.
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-february-2014
But not unique.
Yes, crop dusting.
I like your resume. You're my hero now too.
Given your experience, I would have thought you would have come across this sort of thing before. Again, we all sympathize for your loss.
Yes, I have seen one. I used to work in them once.
Have you ever tried what you hypothesize in one?
Unlike all the different equipment you used to fly, these are pretty hard to crash.
Your last point is somewhat accurate in some quarters.
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...-february-2014
But not unique.
Last edited by currawong; 16th May 2015 at 12:47.
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FRW, again happy to continue in public.
I believe there is some common ground in our opinions.
We are perhaps looking from different angles.
It is difficult to see how this tragedy could occur, all things being considered.
But they do from time to time.
I believe there is some common ground in our opinions.
We are perhaps looking from different angles.
It is difficult to see how this tragedy could occur, all things being considered.
But they do from time to time.
I like your resume. You're my hero now too.
our friend says that in fact he is not grieving -
No, not grieving. Just pissed of that it should have happened, at all.
Yes, I have seen one. I used to work in them once
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Apologies, Fantome.
You are only seeing half of the conversation.
Given the tone I thought it best to keep it on the public side.
No, the "piano" either used to jump out or was towed around and around at 60 kts.
You are only seeing half of the conversation.
Given the tone I thought it best to keep it on the public side.
No, the "piano" either used to jump out or was towed around and around at 60 kts.
It does indeed, CLX - not a bad report as they go and pretty much a case of; it is what it is. As many a mustering pilot before now has found out, when you let her bite at low level, the chances are it ain't going to be pretty.
Of course, despite noting that even if the aircraft was at legal height (which it may well have been at the time of the stall), it was too low for recovery, the report does waffle on about SMS failures etc. - they can't help themselves but I'm inclined to chalk this one down on the fairly long list of pilots lost in pursuit of the perfect camera angle.
Of course, despite noting that even if the aircraft was at legal height (which it may well have been at the time of the stall), it was too low for recovery, the report does waffle on about SMS failures etc. - they can't help themselves but I'm inclined to chalk this one down on the fairly long list of pilots lost in pursuit of the perfect camera angle.
I watched the antics of a c172 off Matsuyker I. many years ago when I didn't have a PPL. I was crewing on the West Coaster leader at the time. The guy didn't quite get as low as mast level but it was below 500'. I was alarmed enough to remember it because the pilot was pulling what I now know were steep turns to keep us in view. if he had gone in, there was no one within 60 miles who could have attempted a rescue and certainly no smooth ground within gliding distance from his altitude.
