ATPL Flight Test
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MCC, only one I know that's approved.....$9000:00
You must be type rated on the aircraft you wish to do the test in, because the test only applies to that type.
Cheapest I can find, a C550 @ $4000 per hour, minimum for endorsement 10 hours.............................................$40,000:00 .
Cant say you were not warned to get in before 1st Sept.
Option now, go to NZ and get an ATPL. Legal advice is that under the Trans Tasman agreement you can operate in the amazing land of OZ with that license...but the fort fumble may have other ideas, so make sure you have lots of money for lawyers.
So for the cadets out there, add fifty grand to your loan if you want a command, that's so you can earn enough to pay your original loan + ATPL, and expect to be debt free by the time you have to retire.
I expect a multitude of 457 visa applications from OZ airlines coming up.
You must be type rated on the aircraft you wish to do the test in, because the test only applies to that type.
Cheapest I can find, a C550 @ $4000 per hour, minimum for endorsement 10 hours.............................................$40,000:00 .
Cant say you were not warned to get in before 1st Sept.
Option now, go to NZ and get an ATPL. Legal advice is that under the Trans Tasman agreement you can operate in the amazing land of OZ with that license...but the fort fumble may have other ideas, so make sure you have lots of money for lawyers.
So for the cadets out there, add fifty grand to your loan if you want a command, that's so you can earn enough to pay your original loan + ATPL, and expect to be debt free by the time you have to retire.
I expect a multitude of 457 visa applications from OZ airlines coming up.
Thorn bird, one has to ask why?
If you are gaining a command where the licence is appropriate, then it will be issued as part of the command line check.
All this really changes is ATPL's not being issued to those who do not really have any appropriate use for it, simply because they used to meet the experience / hour requirements. I have no doubt advertised job requirement minimums will shift in line with the new licence structure, given time.
If someone wants to go spending a stupidly large amount of money to gain the licence when they have no real need for it, then good luck to them
If you are gaining a command where the licence is appropriate, then it will be issued as part of the command line check.
All this really changes is ATPL's not being issued to those who do not really have any appropriate use for it, simply because they used to meet the experience / hour requirements. I have no doubt advertised job requirement minimums will shift in line with the new licence structure, given time.
If someone wants to go spending a stupidly large amount of money to gain the licence when they have no real need for it, then good luck to them
Why would someone want an ATPL? What about those whose ambitions extend to working in the real world?
Like, anywhere except Australia......
We have gone full circle back to the bad old fifties and sixties, when it was impossible to hold a First Class ATPL (or whatever they called it) unless you were anointed Captain with one of the three protected airlines that existed then. Everyone else who could pass the very same exams got a useless thing called a Senior Commercial which was hard to trade up elsewhere. The Poms, for example, made you do all their poxy exams and flight tests all over again, but at least you could do the flight test in a light twin.
My advice is don't piss 40 grand up against the wall with a Citation - do it in an A320 simulator as part of the type rating and at least make yourself employable. Or go to NZ and do it in a King Air. But be careful with that - the TTMRA only works for an initial licence swap from one jurisdiction to the other, not necessarily adding qualifications to an existing Australian licence. So sort that out with CASA first.
Like, anywhere except Australia......
We have gone full circle back to the bad old fifties and sixties, when it was impossible to hold a First Class ATPL (or whatever they called it) unless you were anointed Captain with one of the three protected airlines that existed then. Everyone else who could pass the very same exams got a useless thing called a Senior Commercial which was hard to trade up elsewhere. The Poms, for example, made you do all their poxy exams and flight tests all over again, but at least you could do the flight test in a light twin.
My advice is don't piss 40 grand up against the wall with a Citation - do it in an A320 simulator as part of the type rating and at least make yourself employable. Or go to NZ and do it in a King Air. But be careful with that - the TTMRA only works for an initial licence swap from one jurisdiction to the other, not necessarily adding qualifications to an existing Australian licence. So sort that out with CASA first.
Last edited by Mach E Avelli; 27th Nov 2014 at 08:05.
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King old mate,
have a look at the very, very few jobs on offer in OZ...(ATPL required)
Most certainly overseas, if you put in your CV, ATPL pending flight test... the sound of crickets in your in box will be deafening.
Aside from the fact under the new Bull..sh..t, you have two years to gain a license or go back to sitting the whole lot all over again...ever added up what you paid in $$$ and blood sweat and tears to pass the bull...sh...t we call Knowledge tests in the land of OZ.
I sat mine in 1966, I can say, definitively, that not one single thing I was required to know back then have I ever used in anger, and after all that what did I get but a senior commercial, not an ATPL, didn't get that till I went to the states.
So the point is?????
Same as the engineers, "License not accepted"...and you thought all this cr..p was to align us with everyone else!!! SUCKER!!!
have a look at the very, very few jobs on offer in OZ...(ATPL required)
Most certainly overseas, if you put in your CV, ATPL pending flight test... the sound of crickets in your in box will be deafening.
Aside from the fact under the new Bull..sh..t, you have two years to gain a license or go back to sitting the whole lot all over again...ever added up what you paid in $$$ and blood sweat and tears to pass the bull...sh...t we call Knowledge tests in the land of OZ.
I sat mine in 1966, I can say, definitively, that not one single thing I was required to know back then have I ever used in anger, and after all that what did I get but a senior commercial, not an ATPL, didn't get that till I went to the states.
So the point is?????
Same as the engineers, "License not accepted"...and you thought all this cr..p was to align us with everyone else!!! SUCKER!!!
Last edited by thorn bird; 27th Nov 2014 at 08:10.
Not seing the limitations of operating as an FO with a CPL?
So you are saying employers will turn a blind eye to hundreds or potentially 1000+ hours on type, for an FO position, purely because you lack "ATPL" on the flight licence?
Regarding resitting ATPL theory subjects within 2 years again if credit has been received for passing the lot, this one has kept coming up time and time again, yet to see a written reference where this is confirmed. Can you provide one please.
So you are saying employers will turn a blind eye to hundreds or potentially 1000+ hours on type, for an FO position, purely because you lack "ATPL" on the flight licence?
Regarding resitting ATPL theory subjects within 2 years again if credit has been received for passing the lot, this one has kept coming up time and time again, yet to see a written reference where this is confirmed. Can you provide one please.
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I know PNG still issue a ATPL based on hours and the 7 exams (which they except the casa exams for ) no flight test is required.
You do need to do the PNG (cpl) law & radio exam. Also the PNG (atpl) law exam which are very easy. 2 days study and you could pass all of these.
Could you convert to PNG license get the ATPL based on the 7 casa exams and then return to Australia and convert the PNG (ATPL) into an Australian license without the need for a flight test???
If this was possible it would be extremely cheap compared to other options.
You do need to do the PNG (cpl) law & radio exam. Also the PNG (atpl) law exam which are very easy. 2 days study and you could pass all of these.
Could you convert to PNG license get the ATPL based on the 7 casa exams and then return to Australia and convert the PNG (ATPL) into an Australian license without the need for a flight test???
If this was possible it would be extremely cheap compared to other options.
I doubt CASA would allow that. Many moons ago the popular soft option to passing the Aussie ATPL theory exams was to go to the USA, put some coins in a vending machine and return with the FAA ATP.
Then CASA made it more difficult by requiring proof that the pilot had actually used the ATP in commercial operations. Like much of CASA, it tended to be whatever the FOI of the day wanted. Now the FAA licence is one of the more difficult ones because of all the security hassles and also they have upped the testing requirements.
Theoretically we are all ICAO and should recognise other ICAO State licences. But get it in writing from CASA first.
When you figure in travel and accommodation costs, going overseas to get a ticket which may not be acceptable is quite a risk. Although the PNG licence seems easy to obtain, it is a slow process because the local authority works at its own leisurely pace. Accommodation in POM is not cheap. Also, they link issue of the licence to an employer, so you will need a sponsor.
No free lunches in aviation.
While doing an ATPL in a Seminole is a joke, it is a shame that CASA don't allow someone to configure a Beech C90 for two pilot operations (checklists and SOPs airline style) and approve it for ATPL flight tests. There is enough complexity in a twin pressurised turboprop to make an effective evaluation tool.
Then CASA made it more difficult by requiring proof that the pilot had actually used the ATP in commercial operations. Like much of CASA, it tended to be whatever the FOI of the day wanted. Now the FAA licence is one of the more difficult ones because of all the security hassles and also they have upped the testing requirements.
Theoretically we are all ICAO and should recognise other ICAO State licences. But get it in writing from CASA first.
When you figure in travel and accommodation costs, going overseas to get a ticket which may not be acceptable is quite a risk. Although the PNG licence seems easy to obtain, it is a slow process because the local authority works at its own leisurely pace. Accommodation in POM is not cheap. Also, they link issue of the licence to an employer, so you will need a sponsor.
No free lunches in aviation.
While doing an ATPL in a Seminole is a joke, it is a shame that CASA don't allow someone to configure a Beech C90 for two pilot operations (checklists and SOPs airline style) and approve it for ATPL flight tests. There is enough complexity in a twin pressurised turboprop to make an effective evaluation tool.
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So you are saying employers will turn a blind eye to hundreds or potentially 1000+ hours on type, for an FO position, purely because you lack "ATPL" on the flight licence?
Last I heard, applicants for Virgin won't get an interview unless they have an ATP in their hand and not just the subjects either. Under Part 61, that knocks out a large pool of experienced GA pilots. More slots for cadets??
Also if you apply for an ATP with lots of overseas time on 737/Airbus et al, CASA don't accept that time for purposes of by-passing the requirement to have completed a MCC course in Australia. If you have similar time on VH registered jets/turbo-props then MCC course not needed. That info from a CASA FCL guru.
You can no longer do a quick & cheap FAA ATP. It's now a ground school + some sort of sim training to be able to sit the exam, and then a test in type rating or two crew aircraft. Or something like that. Doesn't affect me so I haven't bothered learning much about it. Suffice to say, though, that it became a *lot* more expensive & time consuming after 01 Aug.
