Government funded flight training: the loan to nowhere
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Government funded flight training: the loan to nowhere
Greetings from a first time poster / long time viewer.
Over the past couple of years, I have contributed countless hours training students under government funded programs through the fee help scheme. Whilst some of them could barely fly a kite with the cash they were given, overall it has been a pleasure to train most of them. My issue is that it pains me to see my company pumping out CPL’s on a daily basis courtesy of the taxman, only to have them walk into a dead industry with $100k loan (indexed to inflation might I add). And I know my company are not the only mob on this gravy train...
I always try to maintain contact with my students through social media, and it saddens me to see how many actually have jobs in the industry – I could almost count it on one hand. I’ve been told by friends up North that they have never seen so many pilots working bars and stacking shelves, often they see up to 5 hopefuls a day hassling for work.
Training institutions around Australia continue to spruik data from Boeing that the market will need thousands of new pilots in the years to come. Really? A manufacturer claimed that? Then it must be true. Has anyone ever looked into how they calculated these statistics or is it just based on the amount of aeroplanes they plan on flogging to China?
I am very much aware that the demise of an aspiring young pilot is not a new thing. But one cannot ignore the fact that this is now happening on a much larger scale with Fee Help and Universities raking in money from this government funded cash cow. My organization has produced hundreds of pilots under this program, and I have fellow instructors in other capital cities who can say the same about their training institutions.
Even if the forecasts from Boeing are correct, the majority of these are for the Asia region and I highly doubt that when Joe Bloggs takes his licence overseas, he will bother paying off his loan to the taxmax on a foreign income! As fantastic as it has been that these programs have made flying affordable to all, the program needs to die, even just for a short time to allow the industry to catch up. So my question is this: how much longer until the gravy train ends? Given the current government is trying to reign in expenditure, surely this should have been the number 1 target?
Over the past couple of years, I have contributed countless hours training students under government funded programs through the fee help scheme. Whilst some of them could barely fly a kite with the cash they were given, overall it has been a pleasure to train most of them. My issue is that it pains me to see my company pumping out CPL’s on a daily basis courtesy of the taxman, only to have them walk into a dead industry with $100k loan (indexed to inflation might I add). And I know my company are not the only mob on this gravy train...
I always try to maintain contact with my students through social media, and it saddens me to see how many actually have jobs in the industry – I could almost count it on one hand. I’ve been told by friends up North that they have never seen so many pilots working bars and stacking shelves, often they see up to 5 hopefuls a day hassling for work.
Training institutions around Australia continue to spruik data from Boeing that the market will need thousands of new pilots in the years to come. Really? A manufacturer claimed that? Then it must be true. Has anyone ever looked into how they calculated these statistics or is it just based on the amount of aeroplanes they plan on flogging to China?
I am very much aware that the demise of an aspiring young pilot is not a new thing. But one cannot ignore the fact that this is now happening on a much larger scale with Fee Help and Universities raking in money from this government funded cash cow. My organization has produced hundreds of pilots under this program, and I have fellow instructors in other capital cities who can say the same about their training institutions.
Even if the forecasts from Boeing are correct, the majority of these are for the Asia region and I highly doubt that when Joe Bloggs takes his licence overseas, he will bother paying off his loan to the taxmax on a foreign income! As fantastic as it has been that these programs have made flying affordable to all, the program needs to die, even just for a short time to allow the industry to catch up. So my question is this: how much longer until the gravy train ends? Given the current government is trying to reign in expenditure, surely this should have been the number 1 target?
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Well New Zealand used to do the same thing essentially. Zero to Hero all on the student loan. It has now stopped and the huge pyramid scheme has collapsed (to an extent).
Why Australia decided to go in this direction is a mystery. Well it had something to do with the pilot shortage (supposedly) which needed a fix there and then and not 4 years later.
Why Australia decided to go in this direction is a mystery. Well it had something to do with the pilot shortage (supposedly) which needed a fix there and then and not 4 years later.
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If the government ends up privatising the student loan system as was proposed, this kind of thing will go bananas.
On the other hand, maybe the private system would be more savvy and deny loans to those that will never earn enough to have to start paying them back
On the other hand, maybe the private system would be more savvy and deny loans to those that will never earn enough to have to start paying them back
Five dollar,
I said something similar to you not long ago and got shot down. You are right. It's a huge waste of money which is also degrading the industry by flooding the market with hopefuls who will do almost anything for a flying job.
These uni based flying courses from what I can see are charging nearly double what a CPL should cost.
I said something similar to you not long ago and got shot down. You are right. It's a huge waste of money which is also degrading the industry by flooding the market with hopefuls who will do almost anything for a flying job.
These uni based flying courses from what I can see are charging nearly double what a CPL should cost.
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Hmm thats strange the flight school im at has a 70 % of our graduates gaining employment within the first year the industry is not as grim as most people perceive
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Inspired are you employed by this flight school or training at it? Because I would exercise extreme caution when listening to tales of industry success stories in the current aviation climate. With the collapse of a few smaller airlines, millions lost at the big end of town, and the mining boom over, I would be very interested to know where these graduates are heading?
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Hello there blatant
In my flight school/uni
We start off with approx 35 students in the beginning and only about 20 graduate out of that 20 the top student is offered a position immediately within the school. Our school has a contract with qantaslink and approx 5-6 of the top students out of the 20 immediately progress into their first officer program. The remainder usually find employment within the general aviation sector within the first year of graduation. I have had contact with graduates and within five years ive know people flying for major airlines around the globe. However with that being said it is usually the top that actually get employed within the first year so you will need to put effort into your studies.
In my flight school/uni
We start off with approx 35 students in the beginning and only about 20 graduate out of that 20 the top student is offered a position immediately within the school. Our school has a contract with qantaslink and approx 5-6 of the top students out of the 20 immediately progress into their first officer program. The remainder usually find employment within the general aviation sector within the first year of graduation. I have had contact with graduates and within five years ive know people flying for major airlines around the globe. However with that being said it is usually the top that actually get employed within the first year so you will need to put effort into your studies.
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There is no way someone can be that naive. Ignorance after all is bliss I guess.
Must be a troll. You've gone too hard and given it away.
Nevertheless:
#gostraighttothejetgocadet
Must be a troll. You've gone too hard and given it away.
Nevertheless:
#gostraighttothejetgocadet
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No no, I have heard of this. The "Top Student" is given a job for 12 months passing his meagre knowledge onto the next round of students. Then cut loose for the next "Top Student". Keeps the roundabout moving and offers a glimmer of hope to those about to part with their money.
Inspired, well, I'm going to call bullsh!t on your "work in GA within a year". Unless you are a marketing guy or receptionist the number of pilots vastly exceeds the number of jobs, and free flying for school students is not helping the rest of us.
Inspired, well, I'm going to call bullsh!t on your "work in GA within a year". Unless you are a marketing guy or receptionist the number of pilots vastly exceeds the number of jobs, and free flying for school students is not helping the rest of us.
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This is why i dont visit this site often every single individual is so pessimist about the industry at unsw we do have a contract with qlink and the top 5-6 students each year graduate and immediately get employed at qlink because they value the training done here
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Government funded flight training: the loan to nowhere
As well as flooding the market, it seems like the big schools these days have little integrity regarding the quality of student they produce. Too much focus on getting done quickly and not enough focus on the standard coming out the back end.
How many students drop out from their medical degrees or law or similar?
Same thing really..... Not necessarily a fault of the industry at all; some people are just downright losers and should work in something more suite to their level.
Same thing really..... Not necessarily a fault of the industry at all; some people are just downright losers and should work in something more suite to their level.
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The loan scheme still exists in NZ. It has been limited to $35k per year. Uni pilot grads still walk out with a $100-120k loan debt. The number of institutions that carry out the training has been reduced and I'm thinking that this number will drop further in the future. This is do to with the number of graduates actually paying back the loans.
Herein creates the problem..most young people see this wad of cash as a endless bank account..and despite knowing quite a few students that have failed numerous theory exams and flight tests I have seen a training org still "committed" to fulfilling these young students dream of being an airline pilot because of this perceived pilot shortage.
RequestAsymmetrics summed it up perfectly. I overheard a conversation between some students saying that they don't need to worry about S&L or descent profiles because that is what autopilot is for.
Then again..the student loan gravy train is keeping a whole lot of current FI's employed.
Herein creates the problem..most young people see this wad of cash as a endless bank account..and despite knowing quite a few students that have failed numerous theory exams and flight tests I have seen a training org still "committed" to fulfilling these young students dream of being an airline pilot because of this perceived pilot shortage.
RequestAsymmetrics summed it up perfectly. I overheard a conversation between some students saying that they don't need to worry about S&L or descent profiles because that is what autopilot is for.
Then again..the student loan gravy train is keeping a whole lot of current FI's employed.
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Squawk7700 it's not that they are dropping out, in fact quite a few are finishing. The problem is there are no jobs to go to! Graduating students are doing the same thing pilots have done previously with a packed car trip around Oz but they're coming home empty handed, even after months at a bar job. At least if you finish a medical or law degree you have somewhere to go.
Inspired - I feel for you in this day and age but have a think about it. Rex have their cadet ship. Jetstar have their cadetship. Virgin Regional have their cadetship. Qlink have/had their cadetship. With FO positions being fed from the bottom, folks in GA are stuck in GA. Previously you could jag a job flying a 206 for twelve months and wait for the twin driver above you to move into a regional airline so you could progress, but this isn't happening anymore.
Pineappledaz well said. It annoys me to see some of the bottom barrel students being limped towards the finish, and there is certainly a disconnect between their flight training and finance. I remember paying for my own and the pain I felt each time the credit card went through the machine, I made sure every flight hour counted.
This Ponzi scheme can't continue much longer
Ps sorry for my delayed replies, it appears I need everything approved by a moderator with my new registration
Inspired - I feel for you in this day and age but have a think about it. Rex have their cadet ship. Jetstar have their cadetship. Virgin Regional have their cadetship. Qlink have/had their cadetship. With FO positions being fed from the bottom, folks in GA are stuck in GA. Previously you could jag a job flying a 206 for twelve months and wait for the twin driver above you to move into a regional airline so you could progress, but this isn't happening anymore.
Pineappledaz well said. It annoys me to see some of the bottom barrel students being limped towards the finish, and there is certainly a disconnect between their flight training and finance. I remember paying for my own and the pain I felt each time the credit card went through the machine, I made sure every flight hour counted.
This Ponzi scheme can't continue much longer
Ps sorry for my delayed replies, it appears I need everything approved by a moderator with my new registration