About time - Air Services
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About time - Air Services
Finally Airservices has decided to charge RA-Aus aircraft for using Class D airspace.
Next steps should be Avdata doing the same for ALL airfields.
In terms of Avdata, GA have been paying since the service was invented and RA-Aus aircraft have been largely ignored due to the RA-Aus aircraft register not being made public. As a result, Avdata have to pass on invoices to RA-Aus and then RA-Aus passing them on to the aircraft owner. This is all added cost to both organisations.
Let's take it a few steps further:
- RA-Aus should make their register public like the GA one; no excuses.
- Airservices should charge RA-Aus for the use of all Class C and D airfields.
- Avdata should charge RA-Aus aircraft operators.
Of the RA-Aus operators that I know, most believe that making the aircraft register would cause them issues because the public having access to their aircraft details is a bad thing. I don't agree, it's not an issue for GA operators.
Agree or disagree?
Airservices Reviews RA-Aus Charging Policy
Next steps should be Avdata doing the same for ALL airfields.
In terms of Avdata, GA have been paying since the service was invented and RA-Aus aircraft have been largely ignored due to the RA-Aus aircraft register not being made public. As a result, Avdata have to pass on invoices to RA-Aus and then RA-Aus passing them on to the aircraft owner. This is all added cost to both organisations.
Let's take it a few steps further:
- RA-Aus should make their register public like the GA one; no excuses.
- Airservices should charge RA-Aus for the use of all Class C and D airfields.
- Avdata should charge RA-Aus aircraft operators.
Of the RA-Aus operators that I know, most believe that making the aircraft register would cause them issues because the public having access to their aircraft details is a bad thing. I don't agree, it's not an issue for GA operators.
Agree or disagree?
Airservices Reviews RA-Aus Charging Policy
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where did this crap come from? , I have been paying avdata charges at airports for a few years now for my Raaus registered aircraft, and occasionally pay them for using airports 1000's of miles away on the same day, or even when my aircraft is in getting a service! and yes, that has included class D.
Raaus have forwarded my avdata fees onto owners for some time now, so the only issue is with the database being made public. but i pay membership fees to RAAus, which should cover the costs of passing on my bills.
If im the only one paying, and no other owner of RAus aircraft is, should i be chasing a refund for fees paid over the past 3 years?
what the GA industry should be pushing to level the playing field, is a reduction to GA fees! but we all know that will never happen....
How about, "if they dont pay, then we dont pay" ?? :P
(user pays in GA has to end. and return to "who benefits pays, that being the community.)
Raaus have forwarded my avdata fees onto owners for some time now, so the only issue is with the database being made public. but i pay membership fees to RAAus, which should cover the costs of passing on my bills.
If im the only one paying, and no other owner of RAus aircraft is, should i be chasing a refund for fees paid over the past 3 years?
what the GA industry should be pushing to level the playing field, is a reduction to GA fees! but we all know that will never happen....
Aminta Hennessy of Clamback and Hennessy at Bankstown summed up the feelings of most GA operators when she said "If we have to pay, everyone should pay."
(user pays in GA has to end. and return to "who benefits pays, that being the community.)
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Lets look at it another way. Almost every organization has to have privacy policies these days. There are penalties for giving out private information. Let's get the GA register away from public access.
Millions of cars are out there and you can't get access to registered owner details, why should every one have access to aircraft records? It's just a left over practice from the past.
If the GA register had never been public there is no way anyone would want it made public today.
Millions of cars are out there and you can't get access to registered owner details, why should every one have access to aircraft records? It's just a left over practice from the past.
If the GA register had never been public there is no way anyone would want it made public today.
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actually, under the current state of terrorism fear mongering, now would be a good time to put a case forward in removing the GA register from public view, who knows what religious idealogical extremists might use the register to find the location of a set of aircraft keys!
So are you telling me they have been getting free ATC all this time??!! 
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Don't worry, RA-AUS will cease to exist in a couple of years. CASA has already begun preparations of their equivalent system as of September 1st.
It's called a Recreational pilot licence and mimicks the RA-AUS system like a mirror. Why would we need 2 systems that do the same thing? bye-bye RA-AUS.
Once everything's on the CASA register, they'll all get bent-over by Air$ervices equally.
By the way, Airservices has been charging for VFR airspace transits for a few months now, to the tune of $25-$40 to fly over the top of a class D aerodrome. With that kind of cost to have 3 short interactions with ATC, it'd be better value to go IFR and get charged by the nautical mile at a fraction of the cost...
It's called a Recreational pilot licence and mimicks the RA-AUS system like a mirror. Why would we need 2 systems that do the same thing? bye-bye RA-AUS.
Once everything's on the CASA register, they'll all get bent-over by Air$ervices equally.
By the way, Airservices has been charging for VFR airspace transits for a few months now, to the tune of $25-$40 to fly over the top of a class D aerodrome. With that kind of cost to have 3 short interactions with ATC, it'd be better value to go IFR and get charged by the nautical mile at a fraction of the cost...
Thread Starter
Ultralights, not all bills are passed on. Some have never received a bill.
Clareprop, yes... No AirServices charge for Raaus to date.
Clareprop, yes... No AirServices charge for Raaus to date.
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Post #7 5-in-50
"By the way, Airservices has been charging for VFR airspace transits for a few months now, to the tune of $25-$40 to fly over the top of a class D aerodrome. With that kind of cost to have 3 short interactions with ATC, it'd be better value to go IFR and get charged by the nautical mile at a fraction of the cost..."
I have never been charged for GA VFR flights in Class C or D (except for landing fees). Has anyone else been charged for these flights?
"By the way, Airservices has been charging for VFR airspace transits for a few months now, to the tune of $25-$40 to fly over the top of a class D aerodrome. With that kind of cost to have 3 short interactions with ATC, it'd be better value to go IFR and get charged by the nautical mile at a fraction of the cost..."
I have never been charged for GA VFR flights in Class C or D (except for landing fees). Has anyone else been charged for these flights?
Thread Starter
I was only once charged for a VFR transit over YMEL but it was in error and was removed from my bill. I have never been charged otherwise.
It is possible that they are these days and many would not notice as you don't see a breakdown for your $500 or at least I haven't had one yet.
It is possible that they are these days and many would not notice as you don't see a breakdown for your $500 or at least I haven't had one yet.
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what the GA industry should be pushing to level the playing field, is a reduction to GA fees! but we all know that will never happen....
(user pays in GA has to end. and return to "who benefits pays, that being the community.)
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Just had a look at Airservices charges:
http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/...cesJul2013.pdf
Section 3 about terminal charges makes no mention of VFR overflight charges and 3.3 actually says fees at all the major airports are not imposed on gliders, balloons or ultralights.
Section 5 on enroute charges only mentions IFR.
I would be checking all charges for VFR flight if you did not land.
http://www.airservicesaustralia.com/...cesJul2013.pdf
Section 3 about terminal charges makes no mention of VFR overflight charges and 3.3 actually says fees at all the major airports are not imposed on gliders, balloons or ultralights.
Section 5 on enroute charges only mentions IFR.
I would be checking all charges for VFR flight if you did not land.
Man Bilong Balus long PNG
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And which one of you bastards used my Rego in Groote Eylandt
And yes, mainly in the top end if I remember correctly.
Some very unpleasant things would have been perpetrated by a few of us upon the physical personage of the offender concerned had we ever discovered his identity.
Pinky wrote:
"Back in the 90's when I was working for a full time Gliding Operation in South Australia.."
Not too many of those left, sadly....
P.S. Pinky. I hear ASC's Pawnee is in for a refabric job somewhere in Victoria. $40k.....Ouch!
"Back in the 90's when I was working for a full time Gliding Operation in South Australia.."
Not too many of those left, sadly....
P.S. Pinky. I hear ASC's Pawnee is in for a refabric job somewhere in Victoria. $40k.....Ouch!
I've only ever been charged when landing at Class D or doing an overshoot at Class C aerodromes. Never been charged a transit fee, HOWEVER I know that some operators were charging students and hirers a fee for this non-existant fee
Thread Starter
Everyone knows that you simply use the rego of the current Director of CASA's personal aircraft or whatever the shiny for sale aircraft is on the front of the latest aviation trader or Aust Flying 
Originally Posted by Squawk 7700
Of the RA-Aus operators that I know, most believe that making the aircraft register would cause them issues because the public having access to their aircraft details is a bad thing. I don't agree, it's not an issue for GA operators.
On what data do you claim it is not an issue for GA operators? Or is this just one persons opinion?
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Most airports in Australia were built and paid for at the taxpayers expense. Therefor we own them. Now given this, the maintenance of them was paid from public revenue and then air nav charges, which morphed into a fuel tax, which morphed into a free for all, and now somehow are owned by either private enterprise or the local Rate payers after they were pinched from us. Now something that I once owned is now subject to a tax to use them so I can buy fuel that used to pay for the airport maintenance, but now makes a profit for somebody.
Not to be outdone the number of aircraft that were around in 1965 that haven't really increased today and probably flying less hours because of over prescriptive regulation, and using these airports, are blessed with a controlling requirement brought about by a redefinition of the same air I used to fly through back then and I have to pay for now. Where was I, Oh yes, It would therefor appear the problem is the bloke with the bag who collects the tax. Now if you need the control aspects, you should pay the costs. If you don't need them, then you shouldn't be made to pay.
Unless the airport was paid for by private funding it should be seen, (as The Cargo Cult in PNG), as an encouragement to land and spend money in the town via fuel, taxi, motel, food etc. Toll gates at border crossings are illegal I believe.
I would advise avoiding these places. Your money is just as good up the road. The bloke running the control tower should send his own bills out seeing as he knows who he is talking to.
Not to be outdone the number of aircraft that were around in 1965 that haven't really increased today and probably flying less hours because of over prescriptive regulation, and using these airports, are blessed with a controlling requirement brought about by a redefinition of the same air I used to fly through back then and I have to pay for now. Where was I, Oh yes, It would therefor appear the problem is the bloke with the bag who collects the tax. Now if you need the control aspects, you should pay the costs. If you don't need them, then you shouldn't be made to pay.
Unless the airport was paid for by private funding it should be seen, (as The Cargo Cult in PNG), as an encouragement to land and spend money in the town via fuel, taxi, motel, food etc. Toll gates at border crossings are illegal I believe.
I would advise avoiding these places. Your money is just as good up the road. The bloke running the control tower should send his own bills out seeing as he knows who he is talking to.
Last edited by Frank Arouet; 5th Oct 2014 at 00:10. Reason: Any one seen Terry?
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Frank,
Welcome to Rentier Australia, the rent seekers paradise Rent-seeking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . Public assets are sold off, usually at a premium by the gov to "rent seekers" whom usually have a monopoly on the "service" they provide. They charge at a rate dependent on their investment to recoup said investment with little or no competition, this is called "tax farming".(Tax Farming definition of Tax Farming in the Free Online Encyclopedia.
It isn't just aviation this occurs, you see this in effect with our toll roads, gas/electric infrastructure etc (read Michael West's work on this @ the SMH online). You now pay for the infrastructure that was paid for yrs ago, and as has been shown in NSW (gas piping etc) under the regulators watchful eye they charge for replacement of said infrastructure based on today's inflated costs to replace. In addition, they "gold plate" their work as their return is based on money spent (% of), so the more they invest the greater their return.
The Liberal party loves this. Look at the East-West link in melb, the MOST expensive toll road in the WORLD at close to 1 billion $ per Km. More expensive than the most expensive road built than even the French. The risk will be on the tax payer and the profit with the tax farmers.
Btw, no business case study here that Abbott demanded for the NBN.
Welcome to Rentier Australia, the rent seekers paradise Rent-seeking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . Public assets are sold off, usually at a premium by the gov to "rent seekers" whom usually have a monopoly on the "service" they provide. They charge at a rate dependent on their investment to recoup said investment with little or no competition, this is called "tax farming".(Tax Farming definition of Tax Farming in the Free Online Encyclopedia.
It isn't just aviation this occurs, you see this in effect with our toll roads, gas/electric infrastructure etc (read Michael West's work on this @ the SMH online). You now pay for the infrastructure that was paid for yrs ago, and as has been shown in NSW (gas piping etc) under the regulators watchful eye they charge for replacement of said infrastructure based on today's inflated costs to replace. In addition, they "gold plate" their work as their return is based on money spent (% of), so the more they invest the greater their return.
The Liberal party loves this. Look at the East-West link in melb, the MOST expensive toll road in the WORLD at close to 1 billion $ per Km. More expensive than the most expensive road built than even the French. The risk will be on the tax payer and the profit with the tax farmers.
Btw, no business case study here that Abbott demanded for the NBN.
Last edited by ANCPER; 5th Oct 2014 at 12:50. Reason: oops, spelling