Medical Cert Issues
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Wingham NSW Australia
Age: 83
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High Horse
Aussie Bob, maybe you should read my previous post (#11) in this thread before you offer me advice. NO, I never was an Insurance Salesman. I, in fact, have been involved in the aviation scene since 1958 and have only recently encountered a problem with the issue of my medical certificate, now a Class 2 but previously a Class 1.
As far as picking the worst case scenario I think it should be obvious. How would you feel if one of your mates had a problem, which left untreated or unreported potentially could lead to incapacitation, then took a member of your family flying and did become incapacitated? I suspect you would be very angry.
I too believe the system is faulty and for the same reasons you cite I decided not to spend a heap of money getting specialist oncologist reports which may or may not persuade CASA AVMED that I am fit to fly.
Mikewil, in answer to your question, neither option you put forward would be acceptable to me, either in sensibility or safety.
Creampuff, as I stated in my original post I am not prepared to go to the expense involved in meeting CASA's demands, so in my case they are the final arbiter. First hand knowledge of the run around a couple of friends of similar age to me have had, and the infrequent flying I normally do, I will just stay grounded.
As far as picking the worst case scenario I think it should be obvious. How would you feel if one of your mates had a problem, which left untreated or unreported potentially could lead to incapacitation, then took a member of your family flying and did become incapacitated? I suspect you would be very angry.
I too believe the system is faulty and for the same reasons you cite I decided not to spend a heap of money getting specialist oncologist reports which may or may not persuade CASA AVMED that I am fit to fly.
Mikewil, in answer to your question, neither option you put forward would be acceptable to me, either in sensibility or safety.
Creampuff, as I stated in my original post I am not prepared to go to the expense involved in meeting CASA's demands, so in my case they are the final arbiter. First hand knowledge of the run around a couple of friends of similar age to me have had, and the infrequent flying I normally do, I will just stay grounded.
Mikewil, in answer to your question, neither option you put forward would be acceptable to me, either in sensibility or safety.
While you think it is unsafe or not sensible, there are many instances where a pilot 'shouldn't' fly but still will for the reasons I have outlined above. Sleepless nights & headaches are probably good reasons not to fly an aeroplane, but I am guessing the vast majority of pilots will still show up to work.
Likewise, if a pilot suffers from a mental illness such as depression he or she is likely to consider that the bills still need to be paid prior to saying "I'm depressed so I can no longer fly" and subsequently join the unemployment queue.
Depression is often something that often only lasts a year or two and when adequately treated with medication, would make for a much safer pilot than one who chooses not to get help and suffer in silence for fear of losing his aviation medical.
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To Fly or Not to fly
Mikewil, my response to you was in relation to the options you put forward regarding mental disorders. My opinion remains unchanged. That aside, if a pilot feels he/she is not fit enough to fly for any reason, there is nothing "professional" about operating if unfit whether it is a single seater or an A380.
My opinion remains unchanged. That aside, if a pilot feels he/she is not fit enough to fly for any reason, there is nothing "professional" about operating if unfit whether it is a single seater or an A380.
The best thing we can do is not be unreasonable, and try to manage the risks rather than turning a blind eye to them or creating policies which make the risks worse, which it seems aviation regulators are hell-bent on doing.
Creampuff, as I stated in my original post I am not prepared to go to the expense involved in meeting CASA's demands, so in my case they are the final arbiter. First hand knowledge of the run around a couple of friends of similar age to me have had, and the infrequent flying I normally do, I will just stay grounded.
Yes: Pilots have to meet the standard. But CASA is not the fount of aeromedical wisdom. The colour vision crusade demonstrates to me that they are untroubled by minor hindrances like 'facts'.
The problem folks is that CASA is now under the control of lawyers, and the lawyers main game is to ensure their employment by frightening the hell out of their prey.
They do this by the simple act of asserting that their prey is at risk and liable for all sorts of torts or potentially guilty of all sorts of crimes if they do not employ the lawyer to protect them.
It is plainly obvious by the way the regulations are written:
"all aviation is prohibited......unless, except"
Hence the medical regulations which state that "a certificate must not be issued....unless, except".
Hence the ridiculous standards of proof required to satisfy the lawyers that you are not an alcoholic, terminally ill, crazy or a junkie, or all four.
These proofs are designed to ensure that absolutely no liability can accrue to any CASA employee, CASA, the Department, the Minister and the Government of the day.
Which begs the question: why do we employ these parasites if not to produce a risk management strategy where risk is consistently matched with the associated costs?
The outcome of the current Avmed situation is arguably to make us less safe.
They do this by the simple act of asserting that their prey is at risk and liable for all sorts of torts or potentially guilty of all sorts of crimes if they do not employ the lawyer to protect them.
It is plainly obvious by the way the regulations are written:
"all aviation is prohibited......unless, except"
Hence the medical regulations which state that "a certificate must not be issued....unless, except".
Hence the ridiculous standards of proof required to satisfy the lawyers that you are not an alcoholic, terminally ill, crazy or a junkie, or all four.
These proofs are designed to ensure that absolutely no liability can accrue to any CASA employee, CASA, the Department, the Minister and the Government of the day.
Which begs the question: why do we employ these parasites if not to produce a risk management strategy where risk is consistently matched with the associated costs?
The outcome of the current Avmed situation is arguably to make us less safe.
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I hate to worry you with it Icon, but have you checked if Zyban is an allowable drug for an Australian pilot. It used not to be!
It doesn't matter because due to some mild side effects which are a bit weird I choose not to fly while on it, I only have a couple of weeks to go on the course, then I was hoping to get back in the air with a fresh medical, but I don't see it happening so smoothly.
I thought the fact the DAME prescribed it during my aviation medical examination would mean its ok. The regs do say check with your DAME before flying with any meds right.
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Icon
My own experience was being with my DAME when he rang Avmed to confirm it was okay to prescribe Zyban. He was quite shaken by the response that CASA would revoke the medical certification of any pilot found to be taking the drug.
My own experience was being with my DAME when he rang Avmed to confirm it was okay to prescribe Zyban. He was quite shaken by the response that CASA would revoke the medical certification of any pilot found to be taking the drug.
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What? Why? Revoke the medical certificate for how long? Just while on Zyban or longer.
I can understand why, my side effects are quite mild but I have read of people reacting in some strange ways, then you have the withdrawal symptoms of quitting for the first couple of weeks.
I can understand why, my side effects are quite mild but I have read of people reacting in some strange ways, then you have the withdrawal symptoms of quitting for the first couple of weeks.
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How long for? I do not know. Regarding the drug itself, the Zyban Fact Sheet lists an alarming number of possible side effects including suicidal thoughts and agitated behaviour along with warnings regarding the operation of machinery.
Icon, you are digging a very deep hole for yourself. Stop right now. Dig it deep enough and CASA might believe you have committed an offence serious enough for them to try and get your real name out of Pprune and prosecute.
None of us take drugs, none drink to excess or have medical conditions that might prejudice our licences. We are all pure as the driven snow. We might know someone who does these things but no one on Pprune would do so.
None of us take drugs, none drink to excess or have medical conditions that might prejudice our licences. We are all pure as the driven snow. We might know someone who does these things but no one on Pprune would do so.
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Good point, I was merely looking for advice from someone who had gone through the same thing, but maybe I'll shut up now and let the rest of you continue with the casa bashing.
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Getting a statin prescribed to HELP my bloods was a great idea and fully
approved by the idiots in CASA medical to reduce my risk factors.
I took the CRESTOR for two DAYS STRAIGHT, on the second day I sat
crying most of the day wishing I could suicide cleanly to save my family
cleaning up the mess.
These so called wonder drugs which are pushed by these morons are
far more dangerous than the estimated reduction in risk of stroke etc.
I have been taking blood pressure medication for a few days before
each medical to also please the CASA idiots with a nice normal range
reading. Incidentally my normal blood pressure is around 140/85 which
reduces to 120/70 with a low dose of meds for 2/3 days before each medical.
The blood pressure pills cause massive fluid loss and a feeling of
extreme dehydration in the mouth, with a general feeling of ill health.
I would dearly love to see the subcontinental fool who runs CASA
medical do the treadmill run under my supervision.
approved by the idiots in CASA medical to reduce my risk factors.
I took the CRESTOR for two DAYS STRAIGHT, on the second day I sat
crying most of the day wishing I could suicide cleanly to save my family
cleaning up the mess.
These so called wonder drugs which are pushed by these morons are
far more dangerous than the estimated reduction in risk of stroke etc.
I have been taking blood pressure medication for a few days before
each medical to also please the CASA idiots with a nice normal range
reading. Incidentally my normal blood pressure is around 140/85 which
reduces to 120/70 with a low dose of meds for 2/3 days before each medical.
The blood pressure pills cause massive fluid loss and a feeling of
extreme dehydration in the mouth, with a general feeling of ill health.
I would dearly love to see the subcontinental fool who runs CASA
medical do the treadmill run under my supervision.
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Unremarkable - until.
The embuggerance is really starting to be felt at grass roots level. Our PPL and recreational flying folk rarely have to deal with the CASA, in any meaningful way. It's as I said to Quadrio – tell your tale in the pub, people will listen but, as it don't affect them, the yarn will soon be forgotten. If industry does not get a grip, unites and forces some sort of meaningful response from Truss, the post below will become so common place as to be, unremarkable.
Last chance folks, the clock is ticking and don't ask for whom the bell tolls.
Toot toot - welcome to the IOS....
Last chance folks, the clock is ticking and don't ask for whom the bell tolls.
Icon -I have been lurking here for quite some time (look at my join date) and have seen all the CASA bashing statements coming from everyone. Up until 2 weeks ago I though they were all a bunch whiners with nothing better to do, hey I was just a PPL who never had any issues with CASA so what was everyone's problem. Then I got my letter, then I did some research, now I am scared! (my bold)
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For everyone that followed this thread (and more for those who might find themselves in the same predicament and search this thread in the future) I thought I'd provide an update.
I eventually got my CDT (Carbohydrate Deficient Transferrin) test results back (be warned this test is a slow process so if your asked for this test apply for a medical extension asap). The results were quite low (i.e I don't drink much). And as has been already said my full bloods were all in the normal range, and some of the numbers of my liver function test were slightly elevated (i.e around 10-20% elevated) which my regular GP has put down to a slightly fatty liver which will probably correct itself now that I'm off the cigarettes but has ordered some more test just to be sure (which I think is a bit of a waste of resources to be honest but my wife insists).
I didn't bother retaking the tests after 3 weeks of abstinence (which was bloody hard for a problem drinker by the way
) as the results were favorable.
So today after a bit of confusion and a lot of waiting I finally got my unrestricted class 2 medical. The confusion was I thought my DAME sent through all the results to CASA when she only sent the CDT results, I did not know this until I rang CASA, I just sent them through myself (I'll get to that).
Before I go any further I just want to state that during every dealing I had with CASA through all this I was honest and open and did not try to hide anything (and if you are reading this AVMED you got my true results), which brings me to a couple of points I wanted to make.
My full bloods
Anyone notice anything with my Haemoglobin? That took about 5 mins in photoshop (and again if your reading this CASA, you got my true results, check with my DAME) and it was me responsible for forwarding this to AVMED. (Maybe they check with the lab though, however...)
Secondly, when getting these bloods taken at the medical centre , not once was I asked for any ID other than my medicare card, so I could have sent anyone in my place to get these bloods taken.
The system is fatally flawed, I really don't see the point of all this because if I actually was a problem drinker I could have cheated the system quite easily, kinda makes the system obsolete.
Now I did say this update was for future searches, and if someone else does find themselves in the same predicament I am in no way suggesting you should cheat the system.
I eventually got my CDT (Carbohydrate Deficient Transferrin) test results back (be warned this test is a slow process so if your asked for this test apply for a medical extension asap). The results were quite low (i.e I don't drink much). And as has been already said my full bloods were all in the normal range, and some of the numbers of my liver function test were slightly elevated (i.e around 10-20% elevated) which my regular GP has put down to a slightly fatty liver which will probably correct itself now that I'm off the cigarettes but has ordered some more test just to be sure (which I think is a bit of a waste of resources to be honest but my wife insists).
I didn't bother retaking the tests after 3 weeks of abstinence (which was bloody hard for a problem drinker by the way
) as the results were favorable.So today after a bit of confusion and a lot of waiting I finally got my unrestricted class 2 medical. The confusion was I thought my DAME sent through all the results to CASA when she only sent the CDT results, I did not know this until I rang CASA, I just sent them through myself (I'll get to that).
Before I go any further I just want to state that during every dealing I had with CASA through all this I was honest and open and did not try to hide anything (and if you are reading this AVMED you got my true results), which brings me to a couple of points I wanted to make.
My full bloods
Anyone notice anything with my Haemoglobin? That took about 5 mins in photoshop (and again if your reading this CASA, you got my true results, check with my DAME) and it was me responsible for forwarding this to AVMED. (Maybe they check with the lab though, however...)Secondly, when getting these bloods taken at the medical centre , not once was I asked for any ID other than my medicare card, so I could have sent anyone in my place to get these bloods taken.
The system is fatally flawed, I really don't see the point of all this because if I actually was a problem drinker I could have cheated the system quite easily, kinda makes the system obsolete.
Now I did say this update was for future searches, and if someone else does find themselves in the same predicament I am in no way suggesting you should cheat the system.
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Aviation Medical Warning
Just a warning.
On the new AVMED electronic form be very careful what you disclose. Some of their questions are not harmless. I stupidly admitted to some minor day surgery over six years ago and I've just got my letter from CASA wanting me to furnish a report from the specialist that performed the surgery. They admit I've fully disclosed on every aviation medical since then (i.e. yearly) but state it was their oversight that they didn't ask for a report at the time. So six years later I have to go back to that specialist that performed the procedure (assuming I can still track him down and that he's kept his patient records for that long) and ask for detailed medical information and hope that he can provide what's required without it costing me a fortune. If that's not enough, they also want a whole lot of recent assessments done as well to prove that "I do not pose a risk to aviation safety". What do they think I've been doing for the last six years?
If you punish people for telling the truth, does CASA think they will be more or less likely to disclose information next time around? If this an example of their new approach, it's just like their old approach only their jack boots are shinier.
On the new AVMED electronic form be very careful what you disclose. Some of their questions are not harmless. I stupidly admitted to some minor day surgery over six years ago and I've just got my letter from CASA wanting me to furnish a report from the specialist that performed the surgery. They admit I've fully disclosed on every aviation medical since then (i.e. yearly) but state it was their oversight that they didn't ask for a report at the time. So six years later I have to go back to that specialist that performed the procedure (assuming I can still track him down and that he's kept his patient records for that long) and ask for detailed medical information and hope that he can provide what's required without it costing me a fortune. If that's not enough, they also want a whole lot of recent assessments done as well to prove that "I do not pose a risk to aviation safety". What do they think I've been doing for the last six years?
If you punish people for telling the truth, does CASA think they will be more or less likely to disclose information next time around? If this an example of their new approach, it's just like their old approach only their jack boots are shinier.
Last edited by Lame Bird; 24th Aug 2016 at 05:19. Reason: spelling correction
