Have you lost your aircraft recently?

[Jabawocky]

I think this settles who flew where.

What happened after the ferry to the Philippines is the owners problem.

News | Snow Goose International

[Jabawocky]

Leafie,

You are a reasonable bloke, and I know you know a bit about such a trip , but trust me mate, the ferry pilot is not a dill, and knows a thing or two about flying turbines across water. As you well know….he spent most of his carer flying fighters off aircraft carriers, active duty and returning or diverting due fuel range. You know this too.

Your assertion above is bordering on libellous and I think it warrants retracting. I was in contact with the ferry pilot at the time, he told me of the winds problem while sitting in CA waiting to go. In the end he just said bugger it I can go the long way. So he did.

The fact of the matter is the end customer turns out to be of interest to the police and is possibly the one arrested.

This has nothing to do with the ferry pilot, who is as honest and upstanding as they come. He may have been too trusting in the quality of his client, but that is not a crime. In fact I bet we have all trusted someone who turned out to be a dodgy crooked businessman or a criminal. I have experienced both and they are hard to pick at first.

[Jabawocky]

By the way….one thing we teach VERY STRONGLY in the APS classes is about the critical importance of running a tank dry from time to time.

We do note turbines are an exception as the restart is not the same deal…so hold up on that. (We teach piston guys).

The point is, you may install a 296USG bladder tank in the back, but you only think it is 296USG….you do not KNOW if it will be.

Given the actual winds, the actual weights the ACTUAL not book performance….if that flight had been taken there would have been a much bigger thread running a month back.

Everyone would be speculating it was Ray Clamback again (no disrespect to Ray)

[kimwestt]

Hey Kharon

Was that -3's or -10's looks like -3's to me with 3 bladers.
Cheers

[Subversive1]

Kimwest, they are Dash 3s.

Jaba, I respect your views, but I dont see that inference in Leafy's post either.


It appears well established that the ferry pilot and company had nothing to do with any wrongdoing and are not under investigation.

The aircraft sat in the Philipines for some time after the ferry contract was terminated and the ferry pilot departed for home.

[Kooka]

The aircraft had a 296USG ferry tank installed at Tracy CA according to the 337 form (record of major repair or alteration) which you can access through the FAA website.

That would give it a range of about 3400nm.

Headwinds to strong to get to KHNL direct? Really?

I know buggar all about Merlins but I know enough about ferrying to know that 296 US gallons ain't going to give it or anything like it 3400nm range. That thing would require close attention to HW component to make it to PHNL from the West Coast.

[Jabawocky]

Inference is subtle and not intended.

But the ABC and Nine news were getting qualified info from this thread and they had already assumed the ferry pilot flew it to Oz.

So suggesting the tank etc should have meant a DCT route implied there was some possible agenda for the long way and via PH.

Maybe I am aware of some behind the scenes misunderstanding by others

And the post by Leafie was not helping with the facts.....and Leafie and I know each other and it was not just a massive slag at Leaffie. But in the case of him being no comms for a while it was best to squash any chance of media misrepresentations.

Don't ya love dealing with this BS. Sorry the rest of the regulars did not get what was going on.

So has anyone any idea why the aircraft owner has been such interest to the wallopers?

[Jabawocky]

Personal attack? What the? The only one copping it was the unintended victim mate. Maybe this was not apparent to you.

I think turbo prop lag is getting to you

[Jabawocky]

Kooka

I am siting next to (a ferry bloke) and we are going through the numbers... again.

The Merlin can lift 4354 lbs

Ferry tank 296 USG @ 6.7lb/USG = 1802 lb

Total FOB = 6156 lb

Assuming it has -10s, at 500lb/hour = 12.31 hours endurance

How fast is a Merlin? 270 kts? 12.31 x 270 = 3324nm.

It is entirely possible that the headwinds were very strong - and it was DB's decision to go/not go - but a 50kt headwind/220kt GS still gives a flight time of 9.5 hours.

Leafie, would you mind telling us who the ferry bloke is, just for future reference ?

I admit I am out of my depth here, never touched a Merlin and have only seen one once from a distance at BK but the back of beer coaster calculations your mate is doing is a long way from reality.

I did not write the numbers down but memory tells me that the actual performance is something like 10%+ more fuel burn, a lot lower TAS due weight and height vs winds, and the winds were a bit stronger than typical at the available levels. I remember thinking at the time this should do it but it would not or not with legal and prudent margins.

Like I said, the guy flying it spent most his life flying on the water. He has even had a swim after a false shot so he probably does not want to do it again with no helo and medical team only seconds away.

You be careful out there mate, we don't want any threads featuring the Leafblower!

[Horatio Leafblower]

Leafie, would you mind telling us who the ferry bloke is, just for future reference ?

Oh yeah. Sure thing. I am comfortable with his numbers.

Over & out.

[Kharon]

Merlin musings.

KW "Was that -3's or -10's looks like -3's to me with 3 bladers.

This seems to be the crux of the performance argument, both have (had) three blade props.. Looking back at old PFR the – TPE 331-3 (three blades) was comfortable at 245/250 range TAS, averaged 560 pph in the F17 – F200 range; with the TPE 331-10 the TAS was higher 265 (ish) for about the same FBO. The big advantage of the -10 was to be able to kick it up over the F200 barrier and stay out of the icing layers. The -3 engines ran out of puff and with the engine anti ice on, descent was often the only answer to ice.

One of the turbine operating norms is the control of SGR, by selecting the TAS, Flow and Altitude to best suit the weather conditions. For example LRC @ A100 TAS 232 Flow 610 v F200 TAS 242 Flow 510. The 'Mark' of the Merlin engine doesn't matter if you use SGR for planning, as you decide the Flow and accept the TAS; or select a TAS and accept the Flow; it depends on the day and what you need to achieve. This does not apply for chuffing about the place on short 2/ 300 miles sectors, unless you are load critical, then it's handy.

On long flights, effective TAS needs to be considered; say you were looking at heading West, with a big NW wind; the 'crosswind' component reduces your effective TAS, however it can be advantageous to go high if the wind is nearly at a constant negative 'value' (TAS v ETAS v Flow); increased TAS, decreased burn off; but you do need to evaluate which is the 'best' height for the job. One of the great thing about the Merlin is the speed range at 'low' level; set up 600 pph @ A100 and watch the speed, same at F150 same flow better TAS, but knock the flow down to 550 or even 500 and the speed will not diminish greatly (weight). With minimum fuel and maximum payloads, the SGR becomes important.

Looking at HLB figures I'd say, without knowing the aircraft they are a little light on; 260 to 270 is about 10-15 knots over the odds for the average -3 and in ferry configuration (weight) at F200 a 500 pph flow seems a little low, but not too much, perhaps it's a fast ship. For average – 3 Merlin (MGW) planning 245 knots 600 pph F 200 is as safe as houses, too much above 200 and the TAS slides away simply for lack of power, so it all depends on the demon wind. But full tanks + 269 USG would be enough and Snowgoose is no goose.... Just saying...

[Old Akro]

I think we've strayed a bit from the path.

It seems that the aircraft was legitimately ferried from the US to the Philippines. This leg seems to be well documented and understood.

The Alaska - Philippines leg may have required long range tanks. Once it got to the Philippines it could go anywhere in Asia (including Australia) on standard tanks. An ex Airline captain I know owns one in Thailand. He flies it to Melb twice a year to visit the grandkids with (from memory) 1 fuel stop.

At the Philippines it was handed to a new owner whose identity is unknown and (presumably) the ferry company took business class airfares back to the USA with their ferry tank tucked under their arm.

The leg from Philippines to Woollongong seems to be the mystery. The port of entry into Australia is not known to us, nor the route to the 'gong. Nor why you'd use a freakin Merlin III for 35 lousy kilograms of drugs. Let alone why you'd choose to unload them in Woollongong rather than Upper Kumbuckta West.

I would have thought that if the Merlin III was intended for drug running you'd put 350kg of drugs in it - not 35 kg and land & unload it somewhere remote.

[truthinbeer]

Old Akro

I would have thought that if the Merlin III was intended for drug running you'd put 350kg of drugs in it - not 35 kg and land & unload it somewhere remote.

My thoughts would be that some 300+kg of drugs was offloaded somewhere, even at Wollongong, but they were disturbed in the act and this is what was hurriedly left behind. Or perhaps the remaining 35kg was kept for personal use.

[YIPYIO]

One of the players in this rather sordid little saga has quite a bit of form. BS has a long term association with Wollongong and has also been involved in the movement of aircraft in the past.

[desmotronic]

Interesting story. 35kg of smack is still a lot of money maybe $10 mill on the street.

[thorn bird]

Ten Mil???
always wondered how that guy with the beard and white dress, who looks around eighteen, could afford a brand new Ferrari.

Trips over his dress getting in and out of it but, always good for a laugh.

[27/09]

Off topic a little, but this story reminds me of a Baron that got "stuck" this side of the Tasman a few years ago after making a "freight run" from Oz.

Not sure what ever happened to it in the end, I don't think the owner even knew it was on an international flight till very very late in the piece, though to be fair I don't think it officially left Oz. Some young gun had hired it for a weekend trip away.

[Desert Flower]

I haven't LOST my aircraft, but I keep getting text messages from some mob asking me if I want to SELL my aircraft. I don't even OWN one!

DF.

[TwoFiftyBelowTen]

I'm not all that clever, but I was able to find that it was SZB-PHE 21/06.... maybe VFR after that... Must have left PHE and arrived CFS after (TWR) hours....

[sms777]

Funny you say that DF.
I have sold my aircraft 10 years ago but still getting invoices from airports around Aus for landing and parking charges.
Further to the plot, I don't think they would have removed 35kg of drugs. Rather 35kg of inside material to refer for further testing for drug residue.
Anyways it's rather quiet in the western front about it. I am getting awfully suspecious about what is going on in this matter.