C208 Crash Hawaii
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C208 Crash Hawaii
Not sure where to post this, but amazing footage and great job done by the pilot.
ABC News Releases Exclusive Footage Of Hawaii Plane Crash | Everything That Matters
ABC News Releases Exclusive Footage Of Hawaii Plane Crash | Everything That Matters
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The lady (can't remember her name, Robyn I think it is) a bit sensationalist,
calling it "spiralling in" . Looked straight and level to me.
calling it "spiralling in" . Looked straight and level to me.
Umm, just watched it the once
There was a fatality in this ditching, fortunately the rest got out ok
I can see this video as a valuable training aid
Was anybody wearing a life jacket prior to splash down
Didn't hear a brace call, maybe there was, the pax in clear view certainly was not in a brace position
and so on
There was a fatality in this ditching, fortunately the rest got out ok
I can see this video as a valuable training aid
Was anybody wearing a life jacket prior to splash down
Didn't hear a brace call, maybe there was, the pax in clear view certainly was not in a brace position
and so on
C208 Crash Hawaii
What is the brace position in a caravan?? It would be interesting to know if any of the passengers accidentally clipped the life jacket around the outside of the shoulder strap and therefore tied themselves to the aircraft
Goes to show why recordings, be it video, audio (CVR) or ectm/FDR, can be truly invaluable to accident/incident investigation...
{Comment: Which again makes a mockery of the non-retrieval of VH-NGA's CVR/FDR..}
The following is a link for the NTSB prelim report for this accident:WPR14FA068
Having had personal experience with suffering a catastrophic engine failure overwater in a PT6 driven Van*, this part of the text from the prelim report brings back vivid memories..:
Will be interesting to see if operating in a high saline environment was contributory to the catastrophic engine failure??
*{Note: Fortunately our engine failure occurred in the climb at about 5,500 ft which allowed us to be able to glide and safely land on a beach. Consequently the beach was re-named Caravan park beach or the van park..}
{Comment: Which again makes a mockery of the non-retrieval of VH-NGA's CVR/FDR..}
The following is a link for the NTSB prelim report for this accident:WPR14FA068
Having had personal experience with suffering a catastrophic engine failure overwater in a PT6 driven Van*, this part of the text from the prelim report brings back vivid memories..:
The pilot stated that shortly after takeoff, a loud bang was heard and there was a total loss of power.
*{Note: Fortunately our engine failure occurred in the climb at about 5,500 ft which allowed us to be able to glide and safely land on a beach. Consequently the beach was re-named Caravan park beach or the van park..}
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The fatality actually occurred post exit so nobody was stuck inside the aircraft. The cause of death is unknown at this time, aka heart attack or similar.
The terminology regarding salt water is "salt laden" environment and yes Deadcut that is one of the purposes of performing the compressor wash. I've seen *arguments* between what constitutes a salt laden environment; Moorabbin no, King Island yes.
The terminology regarding salt water is "salt laden" environment and yes Deadcut that is one of the purposes of performing the compressor wash. I've seen *arguments* between what constitutes a salt laden environment; Moorabbin no, King Island yes.
Just saw a video on TV taken by one of the passengers. They were NOT wearing lifejackets - they were scrambling for them as it hit the water.
DF.
DF.
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What is the brace position in a caravan?? It would be interesting to know if any of the passengers accidentally clipped the life jacket around the outside of the shoulder strap and therefore tied themselves to the aircraft
Tough for an EFATO for the pilot to brief passengers in time to don lifejackets; that said, there's probably a large percentage of non-compliance to inflating the jackets prior to exiting the cabin.
Otherwise, everything they've written about ditching caravan's looks correct; ditches very nicely and sits in the water tail high; for quite a while.
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Quote:
What is the brace position in a caravan?? It would be interesting to know if any of the passengers accidentally clipped the life jacket around the outside of the shoulder strap and therefore tied themselves to the aircraft
What is the brace position in a caravan?? It would be interesting to know if any of the passengers accidentally clipped the life jacket around the outside of the shoulder strap and therefore tied themselves to the aircraft
As per the PT6 maintenance schedule, we need to comp wash every day as we are operating off shore (and yet alone landing in the salt).
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It would appear that Comp Wash won't prevent sulfidization of the CT blades.
As well as Comp Wash P&WC call up a CT wash after flight in Salt Laden air.
There is an ATSB report on UZU's caravan that would seem relevant to this accident as well as a recent crash in Papua.
As well as Comp Wash P&WC call up a CT wash after flight in Salt Laden air.
There is an ATSB report on UZU's caravan that would seem relevant to this accident as well as a recent crash in Papua.
Last edited by No Hoper; 11th Jan 2014 at 21:29.
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I've flown in and out of that airport numerous times personally and based on the location of their ditching they were airborne most likely less than one minute before they were coming back down, in that short amount of time the pilot was more than likely focusing on setting it down in the best possible way and trying to get word out rather than yelling back at the PAX about life jackets.
They were also extremely lucky in having the ocean conditions they did on that day, normally the north short of Molokai sees 10+ foot waves, the fact that the ocean was almost perfectly calm saved their lives.
They were also extremely lucky in having the ocean conditions they did on that day, normally the north short of Molokai sees 10+ foot waves, the fact that the ocean was almost perfectly calm saved their lives.
Last edited by aviatorhi; 12th Jan 2014 at 04:55.
Obviously too early to say whether sulphidation was a factor causal to this accident but it is a factor the NTSB will surely explore given the environment the aircraft was operating in.
Here is the incident report from the 1998 VH-URT engine failure for those interested: Cessna Aircraft Company 208B, VH-URT
From the Safety Action section it can be seen that the URT incident was instrumental to CAsA issuing AD/PT6A/28:
Following the incident, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority issued the following directions to the operator:
CASA also published an article in the November 1998 issue of the CASA magazine Flight Safety Australia, which outlined the circumstances of the incident, and explained sulphidation, its causes, and preventative measures.
And here is a link to the Flight Safety November 1998 story mentioned (pg 7): Engine Trouble
However there is a factor in the Uzu incident that both FF & the bureau failed to pick up on, perhaps best described in a Torres post from a closed thread in 2003 titled CASA in the news Important Urgent - Insight on SBS on Thursday night
... :
On the Creamy & Torres by-play, the DAS/CEO issues & the Fort Fumble critique...well some things never change..
But I digress back to the thread...
Here is the incident report from the 1998 VH-URT engine failure for those interested: Cessna Aircraft Company 208B, VH-URT
From the Safety Action section it can be seen that the URT incident was instrumental to CAsA issuing AD/PT6A/28:
Following the incident, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority issued the following directions to the operator:
- Conduct daily water washing of the compressor and compressor turbine, after the last flight of the day when operating in a salt laden environment,
- Conduct engine condition trend monitoring (ECTM) in accordance with the procedures detailed in CASA Airworthiness Advisory Circular 6-29 Amdt-1, and
- Conduct boroscope inspections of the compressor turbine at intervals not to exceed 110 hours time in service, or alternatively conduct datailed hot end inspections at intervals not exceeding 750 hours time-in-service.
CASA also published an article in the November 1998 issue of the CASA magazine Flight Safety Australia, which outlined the circumstances of the incident, and explained sulphidation, its causes, and preventative measures.
However there is a factor in the Uzu incident that both FF & the bureau failed to pick up on, perhaps best described in a Torres post from a closed thread in 2003 titled CASA in the news Important Urgent - Insight on SBS on Thursday night
... :
Ah, yes, our Caravan engine failure and the Director of CASA flying the aircraft on another occasion.
I'm actually please you raised those points:
1 The PT6A-114A engine was being maintained totally in accordance with Pratt & Whitneys requirements to use "pottable water" for compressor washes. It wasn't until a subsequent laboratory test of the Horn Island water supply that it was found to contain totally unacceptable levels of heavy metals and silica. Yes, I'm guilty. But didn't the pilot do a great job landing at Badu! We had the first beach side Caravan park in the Torres Strait!
& at post #38:
But the cause of the problem was mineral build up on the CT Blades from using Horn Island tap water, knowing the island was heavily mineralised (there is a gold mine and significant mineral deposits on the island) we didn't "tweak" to the fact the treated water may not be "potable". (I don't recall exact details of the analysis, but do recall the silica content was 18 times the acceptable level.)
I'm actually please you raised those points:
1 The PT6A-114A engine was being maintained totally in accordance with Pratt & Whitneys requirements to use "pottable water" for compressor washes. It wasn't until a subsequent laboratory test of the Horn Island water supply that it was found to contain totally unacceptable levels of heavy metals and silica. Yes, I'm guilty. But didn't the pilot do a great job landing at Badu! We had the first beach side Caravan park in the Torres Strait!
& at post #38:
But the cause of the problem was mineral build up on the CT Blades from using Horn Island tap water, knowing the island was heavily mineralised (there is a gold mine and significant mineral deposits on the island) we didn't "tweak" to the fact the treated water may not be "potable". (I don't recall exact details of the analysis, but do recall the silica content was 18 times the acceptable level.)
But I digress back to the thread...
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Thanks for the link sarcs, BTW were you in the RH or LH seat?
Contrary to Torres' belief the comp wash water does not effectively flush the Turbine blades. P&WC do not recommend leaving overnight but have advised that is better than not at all.
Contrary to Torres' belief the comp wash water does not effectively flush the Turbine blades. P&WC do not recommend leaving overnight but have advised that is better than not at all.
Umm, just watched it the once
There was a fatality in this ditching, fortunately the rest got out ok
I can see this video as a valuable training aid
Was anybody wearing a life jacket prior to splash down
Didn't hear a brace call, maybe there was, the pax in clear view certainly was not in a brace position
and so on.
There was a fatality in this ditching, fortunately the rest got out ok
I can see this video as a valuable training aid
Was anybody wearing a life jacket prior to splash down
Didn't hear a brace call, maybe there was, the pax in clear view certainly was not in a brace position
and so on.
You must of been mumbling and cursing the whole way through.
and so on.
Last edited by Compylot; 12th Jan 2014 at 09:06.
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A Death, not a worry!
I am sure the bean counters have allowed for this scenario in the single engine over water/single engine IFR whilst involved with fare paying passengers:
Had one in PNG recently as well and that was over land!
Pucker factor! whats that? OHH thats right, when we lost a FCU on a PT6-34 equipped DHC-6 Nadi/Rotuma,(lots of big blue wet stuff below) and we had another noise maker, wasnt an issuestill had a crease in my undies though):
The industry makes me want to vomit!:
HR:
Had one in PNG recently as well and that was over land!
Pucker factor! whats that? OHH thats right, when we lost a FCU on a PT6-34 equipped DHC-6 Nadi/Rotuma,(lots of big blue wet stuff below) and we had another noise maker, wasnt an issuestill had a crease in my undies though):
The industry makes me want to vomit!:
HR: