C208 Crash Hawaii

[Boeingdream]

Not sure where to post this, but amazing footage and great job done by the pilot.

ABC News Releases Exclusive Footage Of Hawaii Plane Crash | Everything That Matters

[500N]

The lady (can't remember her name, Robyn I think it is) a bit sensationalist,
calling it "spiralling in" . Looked straight and level to me.

[megle2]

Umm, just watched it the once

There was a fatality in this ditching, fortunately the rest got out ok

I can see this video as a valuable training aid

Was anybody wearing a life jacket prior to splash down
Didn't hear a brace call, maybe there was, the pax in clear view certainly was not in a brace position

and so on

[aussieflyboy]

What is the brace position in a caravan?? It would be interesting to know if any of the passengers accidentally clipped the life jacket around the outside of the shoulder strap and therefore tied themselves to the aircraft

[Sarcs]

Goes to show why recordings, be it video, audio (CVR) or ectm/FDR, can be truly invaluable to accident/incident investigation...
{Comment: Which again makes a mockery of the non-retrieval of VH-NGA's CVR/FDR..}

The following is a link for the NTSB prelim report for this accident:WPR14FA068

Having had personal experience with suffering a catastrophic engine failure overwater in a PT6 driven Van*, this part of the text from the prelim report brings back vivid memories..:

The pilot stated that shortly after takeoff, a loud bang was heard and there was a total loss of power.

Will be interesting to see if operating in a high saline environment was contributory to the catastrophic engine failure??

*{Note: Fortunately our engine failure occurred in the climb at about 5,500 ft which allowed us to be able to glide and safely land on a beach. Consequently the beach was re-named Caravan park beach or the van park..}

[deadcut]

Wouldn't comp washes prevent those kind of problems while operating by the sea?

[VH-XXX]

The fatality actually occurred post exit so nobody was stuck inside the aircraft. The cause of death is unknown at this time, aka heart attack or similar.

The terminology regarding salt water is "salt laden" environment and yes Deadcut that is one of the purposes of performing the compressor wash. I've seen *arguments* between what constitutes a salt laden environment; Moorabbin no, King Island yes.

[Desert Flower]

Just saw a video on TV taken by one of the passengers. They were NOT wearing lifejackets - they were scrambling for them as it hit the water.

DF.

[tmpffisch]

What is the brace position in a caravan?? It would be interesting to know if any of the passengers accidentally clipped the life jacket around the outside of the shoulder strap and therefore tied themselves to the aircraft

With lap/sash seatbelts, it's sitting straight & upright, not your typical airliner brace position.

Tough for an EFATO for the pilot to brief passengers in time to don lifejackets; that said, there's probably a large percentage of non-compliance to inflating the jackets prior to exiting the cabin.

Otherwise, everything they've written about ditching caravan's looks correct; ditches very nicely and sits in the water tail high; for quite a while.

[Piano Man]

Quote:
What is the brace position in a caravan?? It would be interesting to know if any of the passengers accidentally clipped the life jacket around the outside of the shoulder strap and therefore tied themselves to the aircraft

As previously said sit upright and straight with the inertia real seat belts. For our operation the life jackets must be worn at all times, I wonder if the same thing applies in the states. Even with two dirty great big floats beneath the machine, people are still shocked when they are made to wear a life jacket.

As per the PT6 maintenance schedule, we need to comp wash every day as we are operating off shore (and yet alone landing in the salt).

[No Hoper]

It would appear that Comp Wash won't prevent sulfidization of the CT blades.
As well as Comp Wash P&WC call up a CT wash after flight in Salt Laden air.
There is an ATSB report on UZU's caravan that would seem relevant to this accident as well as a recent crash in Papua.

[aviatorhi]

I've flown in and out of that airport numerous times personally and based on the location of their ditching they were airborne most likely less than one minute before they were coming back down, in that short amount of time the pilot was more than likely focusing on setting it down in the best possible way and trying to get word out rather than yelling back at the PAX about life jackets.

They were also extremely lucky in having the ocean conditions they did on that day, normally the north short of Molokai sees 10+ foot waves, the fact that the ocean was almost perfectly calm saved their lives.

[Sarcs]

Obviously too early to say whether sulphidation was a factor causal to this accident but it is a factor the NTSB will surely explore given the environment the aircraft was operating in.

Here is the incident report from the 1998 VH-URT engine failure for those interested: Cessna Aircraft Company 208B, VH-URT

From the Safety Action section it can be seen that the URT incident was instrumental to CAsA issuing AD/PT6A/28:

Following the incident, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority issued the following directions to the operator:

1. Conduct daily water washing of the compressor and compressor turbine, after the last flight of the day when operating in a salt laden environment,
2. Conduct engine condition trend monitoring (ECTM) in accordance with the procedures detailed in CASA Airworthiness Advisory Circular 6-29 Amdt-1, and
3. Conduct boroscope inspections of the compressor turbine at intervals not to exceed 110 hours time in service, or alternatively conduct datailed hot end inspections at intervals not exceeding 750 hours time-in-service.

In addition to these directions, CASA issued Airworthiness Directive AD/PT6A/28 applicable to all PT6A series engines installed in single-engine aircraft. This airworthiness directive detailed the requirements listed above as well as requiring all operators to carry out a visual inspection of the compressor turbine blades for evidence of sulphidation, and to continue to carry out engine compressor turbine washing in accordance with the procedures detailed in the applicable Pratt and Whitney Canada maintenance manual.

CASA also published an article in the November 1998 issue of the CASA magazine Flight Safety Australia, which outlined the circumstances of the incident, and explained sulphidation, its causes, and preventative measures.

And here is a link to the Flight Safety November 1998 story mentioned (pg 7): Engine Trouble

However there is a factor in the Uzu incident that both FF & the bureau failed to pick up on, perhaps best described in a Torres post from a closed thread in 2003 titled CASA in the news Important Urgent - Insight on SBS on Thursday night
... :

Ah, yes, our Caravan engine failure and the Director of CASA flying the aircraft on another occasion.

I'm actually please you raised those points:

1 The PT6A-114A engine was being maintained totally in accordance with Pratt & Whitneys requirements to use "pottable water" for compressor washes. It wasn't until a subsequent laboratory test of the Horn Island water supply that it was found to contain totally unacceptable levels of heavy metals and silica. Yes, I'm guilty. But didn't the pilot do a great job landing at Badu! We had the first beach side Caravan park in the Torres Strait!

& at post #38:

But the cause of the problem was mineral build up on the CT Blades from using Horn Island tap water, knowing the island was heavily mineralised (there is a gold mine and significant mineral deposits on the island) we didn't "tweak" to the fact the treated water may not be "potable". (I don't recall exact details of the analysis, but do recall the silica content was 18 times the acceptable level.)

On the Creamy & Torres by-play, the DAS/CEO issues & the Fort Fumble critique...well some things never change..

But I digress back to the thread...

[Lasiorhinus]

What a perfect example of how to take a selfie...

[No Hoper]

Thanks for the link sarcs, BTW were you in the RH or LH seat?
Contrary to Torres' belief the comp wash water does not effectively flush the Turbine blades. P&WC do not recommend leaving overnight but have advised that is better than not at all.

[Compylot]

Umm, just watched it the once

There was a fatality in this ditching, fortunately the rest got out ok

I can see this video as a valuable training aid

Was anybody wearing a life jacket prior to splash down
Didn't hear a brace call, maybe there was, the pax in clear view certainly was not in a brace position

and so on.

Umm, very interesting to read your astutely onanistic and extraneous critique of the pilot in said video.

You must of been mumbling and cursing the whole way through.

and so on.

[Turbine27]

What more could any pilot who has "stared death in the face-and walked away" wish for than a literary defence from Compylot?

[hoggsnortrupert]

A Death, not a worry!

I am sure the bean counters have allowed for this scenario in the single engine over water/single engine IFR whilst involved with fare paying passengers:

Had one in PNG recently as well and that was over land!

Pucker factor! whats that? OHH thats right, when we lost a FCU on a PT6-34 equipped DHC-6 Nadi/Rotuma,(lots of big blue wet stuff below) and we had another noise maker, wasnt an issuestill had a crease in my undies though):

The industry makes me want to vomit!:

HR:

[5-in-50]

Was that a stall warning horn or GPWS sounding at around 100ft?

Is it procedure in a C208 to ditch 5-10kts above stall IAS?

[Piano Man]

Sounds just like the stall warning. For the water conditions it is a saving grace the aircraft didn't flip.