The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions The place for students, instructors and charter guys in Oz, NZ and the rest of Oceania.

IFR & Part 61

Old 17th Aug 2014, 08:55
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: East
Posts: 186
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Good to see with a couple of weeks to go, there are still lots of confused pilots out there...
I can't seem to find anything in 61.M text about what constitutes the proficiency checks. Is CAO 40.2 being replaced with 61 relevant material? I have the pleasure of my renewal being just after the switchover so Iím trying to work out what Iím supposed to be doing.
Under this new 2D and 3D approvals, If I stuff the NDB does it mean I fail and I can't just drop that approach?
NIK320 is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2014, 11:23
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Vermont Hwy
Posts: 553
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thumbs down

NIK, do your renewal before the first!

I am lead to believe, unsubstantiated, that you must pass both 2D and 3D. If you don't have the ability to do 3D, there is a clause to not require it. Otherwise you must do each in the test, and a fail on one means a fail of the lot and a re test (but the re test only on the one you failed- it just means u cannot use the one you previously passed on in the mean time)
Car RAMROD is offline  
Old 17th Aug 2014, 11:31
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Yosemite
Age: 50
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
And the best thing is that Part 61 is going to work like a treat for our Helo industry too. The regs are so clear and certainly not ambiguous and the best thing is that it won't cost us a single cent extra or require extra training for us to comply. Well done CASA well done, bravo bravo.
Soteria is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2014, 04:42
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Further away
Posts: 915
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Casa email today says guidance has been put on their website
megle2 is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2014, 07:20
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: On the equator
Posts: 1,291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Oktas8 View Post
Training wheels:

They're good questions. Google "CASA part 61" revealed a number of results, including FAQs, a sample license, a Part 61 summary booklet and of course the text of the rule itself.
Thanks for that. I've had a quick look at the MOS and in particular the MECIR renewal requirements under schedule 6, Proficiency Requirements.

Appendix 1 Instrument proficiency check Ė aeroplane category
1. Proficiency check requirements

1.1 An applicant for an instrument proficiency check for the aeroplane category must demonstrate his or her competency, in the units of competency mentioned in clause 3, by doing the following:

(a) conducting at least 3 instrument approach operations including at least one 2D operation and one approach using GNSS;

(b) performing instrument approach operations, within the flight tolerances specified in table 5 of Schedule 8 of this MOS;

(c) performing manoeuvres in an aeroplane, within the flight tolerances specified in table 2 of Schedule 8 of this MOS.
So all that's required to renew your MECIR is to conduct three approaches, one of which needs to be an RNAV GNSS. The other two can be anything else I guess, but if you want to keep your 3D instrument approach current, then I guess that means you need to do an ILS. The last one can then either be a VOR, NDB, or whatever else. Which means, good riddance to NDB approaches. The only time I've done an NDB approach is for an MECIR renewal.
training wheels is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2014, 07:26
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: On the equator
Posts: 1,291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by MakeItHappenCaptain View Post
Here's some good news...

90 day currencies for all approach types and CIRs expired for more than 12 mths can then be done on one approach in the air and the rest in a synthetic trainer.
MakeItHappenCaptain, that is indeed good news. I've heard about the 90 day currency for all approaches as well from an ATO, but I couldn't find it written anywhere.

Is that written in the MOS? If so, which section?
training wheels is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2014, 09:11
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,467
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Gotta ask the question, do these aid currencies exist in other jurisdictions? If not, I thought part of the part 61 propaganda was we were aligning with other regulations.
thorn bird is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2014, 10:33
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 133*50 23*50
Posts: 158
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Training wheels;

Just so I'm clear on this. I'll need to do an RNAV on my renewal even though the aircraft I operate are not equipped to do the approaches?
Mail-man is offline  
Old 18th Aug 2014, 14:07
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 889
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thorn bird-

Broadly, yes. The new rules are conceptually closer to other countries, than the old rules were.

Generally, every 90 days you have to do a certain amount of IF and some approaches. Every year you have demonstrate competence in either all or some approaches. The fine points vary between states.
Oktas8 is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2014, 09:04
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,944
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
thornbird,
Trouble is, there seem to be some rather big disconnects between what the actual regulations say, and what whoever wrote the MOS thinks they say.
Indeed, one might say the MOS reflects what the regulations were meant to say, but maybe don't.
It is a pretty big job wading through the whole shooting match (1600+ pages), I takes m' hat of to those with the perseverance to at least give it a try.
At least one chap in the glasshouse in Canberra has a pragmatic approach --- if you come across something that doesn't work, we will give you an exemption.
Tootle pip!!
LeadSled is offline  
Old 19th Aug 2014, 09:28
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: sydney
Posts: 1,467
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Leadie,

I've tried, believe me. Trouble is when you read a reg. you try to see what the intent is.

That gets very difficult when the regs. are littered statements like, "To a standard acceptable to CAsA" or "CAsA may accept".

Just who the hell is CAsA???...CAsA is the guy who ramps you or turns up in your office for an audit, does not matter a toss what you thought the regs. meant, nor what "CAsA" as an organization meant, his or her opinion on the day is what the regs. mean.

When you compare our Part 61 with NZ's or FAA's you really see the difference. With them you Know exactly what the intent is, its very clearly spelt out in plain language, there are very few grey areas, you know exactly what they mean and how to comply.

I have a terrible feeling that the new part 61, although I have to say on the surface there is a lot in them that could be good, leaves us even more exposed to the opinions of the FOI or AWI of the day, with the usual "All care, but we take no responsibility" approach.
thorn bird is offline  
Old 21st Nov 2015, 21:15
  #32 (permalink)  
ZAZ
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Victoria
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Deeming provisions

RNAV5 <> GPS ENR
RNAV 1 and 2 GPS TERM
RNP1 GPS TERM
RNP2 GPS ENR
RNP-APCH-LNAV = GPS NPA


TSO 129 require carry ALTN not GNSS based.


recency
CAO 40.2.1.11
90 days
CAO 40.2.1.11.3A to do an NDB or VOR in IMC
LOC 35 days
GDA 90 days for IMC arrival
SPIR 90 days One hour PIC IFR and 1 approach flown.


NGT
CAO40.2.1.14
CAO 40.2.2.5 PVT AWK
CAO 40.2.1.14 CHTR
Plus CAO82.1.4
PASSENGER
CAR 1988 5.8.2 and CAR 5.109


this is old references from CIR exams
ZAZ is offline  
Old 23rd Nov 2015, 13:25
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: On the equator
Posts: 1,291
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ZAZ View Post

recency
CAO 40.2.1.11
90 days
CAO 40.2.1.11.3A to do an NDB or VOR in IMC
LOC 35 days
GDA 90 days for IMC arrival
SPIR 90 days One hour PIC IFR and 1 approach flown.


this is old references from CIR exams
The table on this page lists the new part 61 recency requirements;

ILS (3D approach and an approach using CDI) is now every 90 days.

And all recency requirements can be done in a sim or FTD.

https://www.casa.gov.au/standard-pag...ment-ratings-0
training wheels is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2022 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.