Flying Hours Down Again
Does anyone have any suggestions as to why this is down so much?
Odd how with relative stability in the above items in the last few years coincides with a smaller dropoff in flying rate...
cost of privatisation a contributor?
At an airport that lots of pollies fly into (and out of), about 10 or so years ago there used to be 6 or 7 companies / clubs offering flying lessons. There are now none - in a city of 350,000. Makes it just that bit more difficult to even get started.
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Dick, would you kindly provide a reference to that graph, I couldn't find it on the Bureau of Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Economics web site.
I did find this graph, which while not a direct comparison, was interesting and seems to show the GA flying activity has been pretty steady over the past decade:
http://www.bitre.gov.au/publications...tivity2010.pdf (page 8).
Possibly the rise in popularity of Sports aviation is responsible for the missing hours?
I did find this graph, which while not a direct comparison, was interesting and seems to show the GA flying activity has been pretty steady over the past decade:
http://www.bitre.gov.au/publications...tivity2010.pdf (page 8).
Possibly the rise in popularity of Sports aviation is responsible for the missing hours?
Last edited by peterc005; 22nd Oct 2013 at 10:26.
short flights long nights
It's simple. GA has been costed/regulated slowly out of existence.
When I learnt to fly 35 years ago, I could drive down to Jandakot on the weekend, grab a free VTC from the friendly guys at the briefing office, hop in a 152, fly to Fremantle and back do a few circuits and land, all for no extra charge and just doing it was simple.
Now, everything you want to do is charged on top of the aircraft. You need an ASIC, a hi viz, god knows what else, before you even start.
The VERY SAME 152 that I learnt to fly in 35 years ago that cost $35 an hour is now charged out $310 an hour plus all the add ons.
And the regulations just to something simple...are simply mind boggling.
But it's simple really, in a few years time, if you want to learn to fly, you will be able to, but you will have to move to China.
It's criminal what has been allowed to happen to the GA industry. I hope Dick is happy.
When I learnt to fly 35 years ago, I could drive down to Jandakot on the weekend, grab a free VTC from the friendly guys at the briefing office, hop in a 152, fly to Fremantle and back do a few circuits and land, all for no extra charge and just doing it was simple.
Now, everything you want to do is charged on top of the aircraft. You need an ASIC, a hi viz, god knows what else, before you even start.
The VERY SAME 152 that I learnt to fly in 35 years ago that cost $35 an hour is now charged out $310 an hour plus all the add ons.
And the regulations just to something simple...are simply mind boggling.
But it's simple really, in a few years time, if you want to learn to fly, you will be able to, but you will have to move to China.
It's criminal what has been allowed to happen to the GA industry. I hope Dick is happy.
short flights long nights
People are Jack. A TIF in a 152 is now over $180. And that is just 30 minutes long!
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Thorny rules
Thorny, gold mate gold! This one goes down as saying of the month;"Turkey slap of blatant corruption". I am also sure some of the other swines balls have slapped them in the head as they dive head first into the trough 
Re " PS. Im told the medicals stopped because the regulator has made it more trouble than its worth to hold the approval. "
Touche.....( E acute)
One of my previous Docs told me the same, some time ago....
"Bureaucratic red tape..." Bah Humbug!!!
No Cheers
Touche.....( E acute)
One of my previous Docs told me the same, some time ago....
"Bureaucratic red tape..." Bah Humbug!!!
No Cheers
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Originally Posted by layman
At an airport that lots of pollies fly into (and out of), about 10 or so years ago there used to be 6 or 7 companies / clubs offering flying lessons. There are now none - in a city of 350,000. Makes it just that bit more difficult to even get started.
That said, YSCB is about as GA friendly as YSSY.
Last edited by bankrunner; 22nd Oct 2013 at 12:04.
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I'm seriously considering building an aircraft sometime in the next few years.
It's tempting to ship it over to the States in a container once I've completed it, put it on the N-register in the Experimental category, get the FAA "Repairman's Certificate" so I can maintain it, then ship it back home where I'd continue to fly it around as a US registered aircraft just so I can give the Skull and his mates the finger
It's tempting to ship it over to the States in a container once I've completed it, put it on the N-register in the Experimental category, get the FAA "Repairman's Certificate" so I can maintain it, then ship it back home where I'd continue to fly it around as a US registered aircraft just so I can give the Skull and his mates the finger
Last edited by bankrunner; 22nd Oct 2013 at 12:13.
Well Dick, here's another response to your 'hook'...
Can you please tell me why CASA is making everything I do and enjoy, a Criminal Offence of Strict Liability...Penalty 5,000,000,000 Penalty Units..??
That's a 'surefire way' to E N C O U R A G E Aviation in this great country full of hard working Australian Families......NOT!!
Did you 'encourage' this type of approach during your tenure..??
NO Cheers
Can you please tell me why CASA is making everything I do and enjoy, a Criminal Offence of Strict Liability...Penalty 5,000,000,000 Penalty Units..??
That's a 'surefire way' to E N C O U R A G E Aviation in this great country full of hard working Australian Families......NOT!!
Did you 'encourage' this type of approach during your tenure..??
NO Cheers
So Griffo,
Just to be clear - you enjoy flying without a licence, with an expired MR, without a medical?
Can you point out to me something specifically which, now a strict liability offence, you previously enjoyed doing?
Just to be clear - you enjoy flying without a licence, with an expired MR, without a medical?
Can you point out to me something specifically which, now a strict liability offence, you previously enjoyed doing?
This looks to be a clever merge of threads.
The point here is that one explanation for part of the drop in hours is more complex and changing rules. Think now of the wording "strict liability penalty" etc. It scares people. Who wants to make a mistake now? When I learned to fly, mistakes were part and parcel of the adventure of learning to fly. Now it appears to be policed.
The point here is that one explanation for part of the drop in hours is more complex and changing rules. Think now of the wording "strict liability penalty" etc. It scares people. Who wants to make a mistake now? When I learned to fly, mistakes were part and parcel of the adventure of learning to fly. Now it appears to be policed.
Dick had nothing to do with the advent of strict liability or the number of strict liability offences in the aviation regulations. Nor did CASA.
It’s why governments get away with it. Ignorant punters are happier to shoot the messenger than learn the facts and comprehend the implications.
It’s why governments get away with it. Ignorant punters are happier to shoot the messenger than learn the facts and comprehend the implications.
Whoa - hang on a minute! Dick asked "Why aren't people flying". I can only answer for me. These are some of the reasons I don't fly. Who's shooting the messenger? I note you're from the US - part of the gun lobby?
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Dick had nothing to do with the advent of strict liability
Of course Mr 'HL'....And you forgot to mention the unregistered aircraft, which I fixed up meself with a bit of No 8 fencing wire, and which may be 'old' but its still 'OK'....
On the other hand it COULD well be because a pilot MAY still have the 'Blue' version of the local VTC /VNC in his / her bag, and the 'Brown' one is now the 'current' version, despite the fact that in the last 4 or 5 editions, NOTHING has changed......so, although the information may still be current, the 'method' of display is not, therefore, if one is ramp-checked.....
Just another form of non-common sense...
And yes, I for one am using a very well done local electronic product which IS the current 'brown' version.
However, the regs do say....Penalty 50 lashes....
On the other hand it COULD well be because a pilot MAY still have the 'Blue' version of the local VTC /VNC in his / her bag, and the 'Brown' one is now the 'current' version, despite the fact that in the last 4 or 5 editions, NOTHING has changed......so, although the information may still be current, the 'method' of display is not, therefore, if one is ramp-checked.....
Just another form of non-common sense...
And yes, I for one am using a very well done local electronic product which IS the current 'brown' version.
However, the regs do say....Penalty 50 lashes....
Last edited by Ex FSO GRIFFO; 22nd Oct 2013 at 23:32.
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To my mind, the slow decline of GA is linked to lack of younger people taking up flying as a hobby.
Think about your local flying club/school/group, take out the those pursuing commercial licences and think about how many folks you typically see under the age of 30. I would guess it's not many.
I don't think that the cost is a huge block on those wanting to learn to fly - I gather it costs about the same in relative terms as it did years ago, albeit with our form loving friends in Canberra taking a bigger and bigger chunk. Perhaps the gigantic mortgages people take on is taking away their disposable income?
Also I don't think that general interest in aviation has waned - look at the attendance at airshows for example; no huge crash (pardon the pun) in numbers.
Coming to Australia five years ago, even with an overseas licence in hand, I found it very difficult to know where to start. In this day and age you would have expected schools to have a good internet presence with lots of info - sadly most looked like an 8 year old school project, with less information. Things are a bit better nowadays, but people expect the relevant info to be easy to get to online. I went to a couple of schools at MB in person only to encounter empty reception desks or cold/unknowledgeable staff. I knew exactly what I wanted, but imagine being a beginner - there is a huge hurdle to climb before getting a TIF!
Once you get a TIF it will probably get the rattiest old aircraft pulled from a run-down hangar with the least experienced instructor who spends the entire time dreaming of driving a QF machine. It is probably enough to put most people off for life!
Think about those who persevere to get their PPL - for a few hundred dollars you might get to fly to an empty airstrip and back, but make sure you've got it back by 2pm for the next guy!
To maintain GA we (pilots, clubs regulators) need to attract more young PPLs. Aviation must be made more accessible - the world has changed rapidly over the last 10, 20, 30 years but GA has not. It's a case of evolve or die I'm afraid.
Gareth
Think about your local flying club/school/group, take out the those pursuing commercial licences and think about how many folks you typically see under the age of 30. I would guess it's not many.
I don't think that the cost is a huge block on those wanting to learn to fly - I gather it costs about the same in relative terms as it did years ago, albeit with our form loving friends in Canberra taking a bigger and bigger chunk. Perhaps the gigantic mortgages people take on is taking away their disposable income?
Also I don't think that general interest in aviation has waned - look at the attendance at airshows for example; no huge crash (pardon the pun) in numbers.
Coming to Australia five years ago, even with an overseas licence in hand, I found it very difficult to know where to start. In this day and age you would have expected schools to have a good internet presence with lots of info - sadly most looked like an 8 year old school project, with less information. Things are a bit better nowadays, but people expect the relevant info to be easy to get to online. I went to a couple of schools at MB in person only to encounter empty reception desks or cold/unknowledgeable staff. I knew exactly what I wanted, but imagine being a beginner - there is a huge hurdle to climb before getting a TIF!
Once you get a TIF it will probably get the rattiest old aircraft pulled from a run-down hangar with the least experienced instructor who spends the entire time dreaming of driving a QF machine. It is probably enough to put most people off for life!
Think about those who persevere to get their PPL - for a few hundred dollars you might get to fly to an empty airstrip and back, but make sure you've got it back by 2pm for the next guy!
To maintain GA we (pilots, clubs regulators) need to attract more young PPLs. Aviation must be made more accessible - the world has changed rapidly over the last 10, 20, 30 years but GA has not. It's a case of evolve or die I'm afraid.
Gareth
Pretty simple, I'll be discouraging my kids from entering aviation for all of the above reasons. Plus I'm not forking out $100k+ for them to get a $45k job. What a terrible investment.