Essendon Airport Training
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Essendon Airport Training
A couple of questions if I may indulge please.
Am doing some preliminary research for a PPL and as part of getting some starting points was wondering:
1/ Is the training area out of YMEN the largest in Victoria for GFPT pilots, and can you also land at YBSS and YMMB once approved by your instructor as a GFPT pilot?
2/ If one chooses not to do the GFPT and focus only on the PPL, is it still neccessary to do the BAK etc, or does a pass in the PPL subjects cover everything?
Many Thanks.
Am doing some preliminary research for a PPL and as part of getting some starting points was wondering:
1/ Is the training area out of YMEN the largest in Victoria for GFPT pilots, and can you also land at YBSS and YMMB once approved by your instructor as a GFPT pilot?
2/ If one chooses not to do the GFPT and focus only on the PPL, is it still neccessary to do the BAK etc, or does a pass in the PPL subjects cover everything?
Many Thanks.
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I think it will soon be a RPL rather than GFPT soon. My recollection is that GFPT must land at the airport then departed from.
YMEN may not be the friendliest airport for initial training. It's a fairly complex and expensive place to fly. Moorabbin or YBSS might be better options.
YMEN may not be the friendliest airport for initial training. It's a fairly complex and expensive place to fly. Moorabbin or YBSS might be better options.
BAK normally was a pre-solo requirement.
My experience for doing PPL out of EN was TOTAL immersion in the system. If you can operate out of class C then radio procedures carry no fear factor come the last ride with the ATO.
Ab-initio, you really need to do this at a non controlled aerodrome with an adjoining training area. Whilst it was pretty cool to depart a controlled aerodrome to do circuits at a MBZ (CTAF(R)) some twenty miles distant and then return, with all the adjoining procedures....just like a mini navex every time you go up...all this on a RPPL which is more than a GFPT...it all comes at a BIG cost. I feel you really need to weigh the costs of doing up to GFPT level at EN.
My experience for doing PPL out of EN was TOTAL immersion in the system. If you can operate out of class C then radio procedures carry no fear factor come the last ride with the ATO.
Ab-initio, you really need to do this at a non controlled aerodrome with an adjoining training area. Whilst it was pretty cool to depart a controlled aerodrome to do circuits at a MBZ (CTAF(R)) some twenty miles distant and then return, with all the adjoining procedures....just like a mini navex every time you go up...all this on a RPPL which is more than a GFPT...it all comes at a BIG cost. I feel you really need to weigh the costs of doing up to GFPT level at EN.
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Another hassle with YMEN is needing to travel a distance away from the airport for a lot of the training.
I keep hearing good things about the GA training out at Lethbridge if you don't mind travelling a bit further out west.
I keep hearing good things about the GA training out at Lethbridge if you don't mind travelling a bit further out west.
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"Another hassle with YMEN is needing to travel a distance away from the airport for a lot of the training".
True, the only upside to this I thought was, if for some reason there was a bit of a gap going from GFPT (RPL) to PPL, at least flying out of YMEN might be more variable, but you guys are right, that might come at too high a cost premium.
Thanks for Lethbridge suggestion, to be honest I haven't heard of them so will check out.
We are NorthWest Melbourne, but travel for good quality instruction and environment would I think be worth it, especially if costings are fair.
My not so short list so far is YMEN- Pearson Aviation, YMMB- Peter Bini's or MFT, Kyneton, PAC (Tyabb) and Lilydale. All different, and all with various advantages'
I know every-bodies needs and experiences will be different but it sure would be nice to get off to a good start and give ourselves the best chance possible to tackle it the right way hence the initial research.
Thanks a lot.
True, the only upside to this I thought was, if for some reason there was a bit of a gap going from GFPT (RPL) to PPL, at least flying out of YMEN might be more variable, but you guys are right, that might come at too high a cost premium.
Thanks for Lethbridge suggestion, to be honest I haven't heard of them so will check out.
We are NorthWest Melbourne, but travel for good quality instruction and environment would I think be worth it, especially if costings are fair.
My not so short list so far is YMEN- Pearson Aviation, YMMB- Peter Bini's or MFT, Kyneton, PAC (Tyabb) and Lilydale. All different, and all with various advantages'
I know every-bodies needs and experiences will be different but it sure would be nice to get off to a good start and give ourselves the best chance possible to tackle it the right way hence the initial research.
Thanks a lot.
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A GFPT only allows you to fly, subject to authorisation from an instructor; in the training area, the most direct route to or from the training area, or a route authorised by the instructor (I.e. Solo nav/cta training). you can't land at an airport just because it's in/on the way to the training area.
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Flight Training at Essendon
Flying out of Essendon is challenging. However once you familiarise yourself with the Class C procedures, you'll be just fine.
Answer to your questions;
1) No. Once you've obtained your GFPT out of Essendon you're allowed to fly to and from the associated training area/airfield and back.
For example if you wish too choose to fly out of YMEN, I personally and highly suggest Pearsons Aviation. They use Point Cook as their associated training area and airfield for circuits.
2) Yes. It is still necessary that you complete your BAK Exam before you may progress to first solo.
If you choose to fly out of YMMB. Both MFT and Peter Bini's are good flying schools. Just note that Peter Bini's usually train more for initial Multi-engine endorsements and CIR.
P.s Forgot to mention that if you wish to fly out of YMEN with Pearson's they don't charge you a landing fee into Essendon.
PM If you have any further enquiries!
Cheers T&G
Answer to your questions;
1) No. Once you've obtained your GFPT out of Essendon you're allowed to fly to and from the associated training area/airfield and back.
For example if you wish too choose to fly out of YMEN, I personally and highly suggest Pearsons Aviation. They use Point Cook as their associated training area and airfield for circuits.
2) Yes. It is still necessary that you complete your BAK Exam before you may progress to first solo.
If you choose to fly out of YMMB. Both MFT and Peter Bini's are good flying schools. Just note that Peter Bini's usually train more for initial Multi-engine endorsements and CIR.
P.s Forgot to mention that if you wish to fly out of YMEN with Pearson's they don't charge you a landing fee into Essendon.
PM If you have any further enquiries!
Cheers T&G
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you can't land at an airport just because it's in/on the way to the training area
Might have to wait and see what these new RPL changes are all about.
By the way, does anyone know, does an Integrated CPL have to be commenced and committed to from hour zero, or can someone move onto the Integrated CPL and get credit for previous flying eg if one has already attained a PPL and is keen to proceed commercially or are you now restricted to the min 200 hours pathway?
Appreciate your time.
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RPL differs from a GFPT in that it's a licence. You won't need to be signed out every time you fly and you can do things like signing the maintenance release, etc. it is almost identical in privileges to an RAA pilot certificate. You are still subject to 'endorsements' to fly outside the T/A, in CTA, etc.
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By the way, does anyone know, does an Integrated CPL have to be commenced and committed to from hour zero, or can someone move onto the Integrated CPL and get credit for previous flying eg if one has already attained a PPL and is keen to proceed commercially or are you now restricted to the min 200 hours pathway?
Best of luck aiming point!
T&G
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Don't be too worried about having to do the 200hr CPL. A lot of integrated students bust the 150hrs substantially. Remember these are minimums, you don't get the licence purely because you've paid for the hours. Take the responsibility yourself to ensure you're meeting the desired standard for both flying and theory, and you'll find things will happen just when they're supposed to. An extra 50hrs in the logbook is not a bad thing. Only downside is GST.
Last edited by Nomde plume; 7th Oct 2013 at 07:31. Reason: Typo
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I did my training at YMEN
Hi AP,
I think you have most of the information you need in the posts above.
I did my training with Pearson's at YMEN and was very happy. While they don't charge landing fees separately it is built in to the hourly rate. So I think you will find their rates are higher than you might find elsewhere.
For me, it was easy to get to. 15mins to drive to YMEN compared to 45mins for YMMB and probably 50mins YLED (one way). Particularly useful when you find you have taken the keys home with you.
The big thing about training in Class C is that the procedures become second nature. So while I'm still relatively low time I'm not phased flying through TCAs.
Cheers Ted. (PM if you have any other questions about Pearsons.)
I think you have most of the information you need in the posts above.
I did my training with Pearson's at YMEN and was very happy. While they don't charge landing fees separately it is built in to the hourly rate. So I think you will find their rates are higher than you might find elsewhere.
For me, it was easy to get to. 15mins to drive to YMEN compared to 45mins for YMMB and probably 50mins YLED (one way). Particularly useful when you find you have taken the keys home with you.
The big thing about training in Class C is that the procedures become second nature. So while I'm still relatively low time I'm not phased flying through TCAs.
Cheers Ted. (PM if you have any other questions about Pearsons.)
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The Lethbridge GA school is run by Jeremy Miller and I think it's called Skythrills now.
Jeremy is now President of the Aerobatic Club Victorian Chapter and very well regarded.
My guess is that Lethbridge would be a heap cheaper and a more friendly place to fly.
Other schools at Moorabbin like MFT, Binies and MFS are also well regarded.
Jeremy is now President of the Aerobatic Club Victorian Chapter and very well regarded.
My guess is that Lethbridge would be a heap cheaper and a more friendly place to fly.
Other schools at Moorabbin like MFT, Binies and MFS are also well regarded.
Last edited by peterc005; 7th Oct 2013 at 07:54.
2) Yes. It is still necessary that you complete your BAK Exam before you may progress to first solo.
2/ If one chooses not to do the GFPT and focus only on the PPL, is it still neccessary to do the BAK etc, or does a pass in the PPL subjects cover everything?
By the way, does anyone know, does an Integrated CPL have to be commenced and committed to from hour zero, or can someone move onto the Integrated CPL and get credit for previous flying eg if one has already attained a PPL and is keen to proceed commercially or are you now restricted to the min 200 hours pathway?
Last edited by 43Inches; 7th Oct 2013 at 11:13. Reason: Adjusted for relevance to PPL not CPL.
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43 inches you are correct, no requirement for BAK for first solo. Usually a 20 question multi choice test that checks you have a slight idea about what you are doing. Don't know of anyone that has ever failed this after giving study a passing thought.
Additionally, there is no requirement to do a GFPT for solo navex or PPL test. if that is the case, GFPT items are included in the PPL flight test.
Of course all of this may change come December.
Additionally, there is no requirement to do a GFPT for solo navex or PPL test. if that is the case, GFPT items are included in the PPL flight test.
Of course all of this may change come December.
Last edited by Nomde plume; 7th Oct 2013 at 10:06.
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You'll find Lethbridge is a bit different, you'll actually learn how to fly out there, stick and rudder, tail wheel right from the start if you want. You're in the training area as soon as your wheels leave the ground, no f@cking about. Oh yeah, formation Friday's