Reasonable Career expectations..
PPRuNe Handmaiden
UK/Europe is difficult mainly because of the mind destroying EASA licence conversion and visa/passport issues.
However, the feeling here is that 2014 is about to change hiring wise. In fact, it's already begun in a slow-ish way.
However, the feeling here is that 2014 is about to change hiring wise. In fact, it's already begun in a slow-ish way.
be that person they think of, yes you are a little bit older, but you are also wiser, more experienced in life and I would assume that you have a more mature outlook
Was retrenched out of a wonderful job flying 737's around the South Pacific and had lots of hours too. Was around 53 years old and loved flying too much to give it all away. Problem was one had to eat. Applied to Australia Post to be a motor bike postman as I have always liked to travel - Moonee Ponds here I come
Sat the Australia Post aptitude test and failed
So I could fly the South Pacific and dodge around the CB's but considered unsuitable to dress up in flashy yellow plastic suit with big crash helmet and poke letters through post boxes.So drove a taxi instead. Two years later got back into my old job of flying the 737. Swings and roundabouts
To be quite frank, if I were looking for potential employees,someone like the original poster would be ideal.
The aviation experience will come quick enough, but the life experience, balance and general mature outlook will not be found in so quickly. Id say from reading just one of your posts that you would offer something entirely different, and enticing to any company.
I am being generalistic here, but the average 20-25 year old cant get near your experience and skills notwithstanding the fact there are some quality people out there in that age bracket, but they can tend to be little less stable overall.
I think the fact that you are willing to just get out there and work hard will be key, but be prepared to be right back at the bottom of a new industry.I changed career late,came from the very top of my game in another field, and a fair dose of humility is required as you will come across people of all ages who worked hard to get where they are, and will unfortunately may try and stomp you.Just keep your head down and you will quickly gain respect.
Keep in mind the airlines are not the only way to make a living in aviation. you can still find other ways if you keep your eyes open.
good luck
The aviation experience will come quick enough, but the life experience, balance and general mature outlook will not be found in so quickly. Id say from reading just one of your posts that you would offer something entirely different, and enticing to any company.
I am being generalistic here, but the average 20-25 year old cant get near your experience and skills notwithstanding the fact there are some quality people out there in that age bracket, but they can tend to be little less stable overall.
I think the fact that you are willing to just get out there and work hard will be key, but be prepared to be right back at the bottom of a new industry.I changed career late,came from the very top of my game in another field, and a fair dose of humility is required as you will come across people of all ages who worked hard to get where they are, and will unfortunately may try and stomp you.Just keep your head down and you will quickly gain respect.
Keep in mind the airlines are not the only way to make a living in aviation. you can still find other ways if you keep your eyes open.
good luck
Last edited by Homesick-Angel; 6th Jul 2013 at 00:06.
This is a good podcast on the benefits of quitting!
Freakonomics » The Upside of Quitting
Many people place too much value in "sunk cost". I.e. they see what they have put into their existing job as over-valued. Lots of data shown that people who quit (anything) generally happier.
Anyway worth a listen!
Freakonomics » The Upside of Quitting
Many people place too much value in "sunk cost". I.e. they see what they have put into their existing job as over-valued. Lots of data shown that people who quit (anything) generally happier.
Anyway worth a listen!
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High on your list should be your first flying job. Be prepared to fly single engine in some remote place and you will soon have another 500 to 1000 hours with possibly some of that on twins.
The pay will be less, but it is possible to be just as happy in left seat of your turboprop as an airline jet.
Setting a goal as mid size jet captain will work if there is lots of recruiting. Any substantial general downturn in airlines, like experienced after the first Iraq War, would set your plans back a lot.
Getting that interview and being available to start today are black arts that need mastering. I had it on good authority that there was a 727 job in Casablanca. Bought a one way ticket from Brisbane. On arrival was told there were no positions. Hung around for a couple of days and got the job. There will be hundreds of stories like that.
The pay will be less, but it is possible to be just as happy in left seat of your turboprop as an airline jet.
Setting a goal as mid size jet captain will work if there is lots of recruiting. Any substantial general downturn in airlines, like experienced after the first Iraq War, would set your plans back a lot.
Getting that interview and being available to start today are black arts that need mastering. I had it on good authority that there was a 727 job in Casablanca. Bought a one way ticket from Brisbane. On arrival was told there were no positions. Hung around for a couple of days and got the job. There will be hundreds of stories like that.
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Mate there's no reason why that goal of ending up a Jet skipper can't happen. You've got 25 years to make it happen as well as airline ops experience.
Having said that I'm also finding it a bit difficult to move on to the twins! I'm very lucky and happy to be flying the caravan but I'm ready to move on now.
Good luck!
Having said that I'm also finding it a bit difficult to move on to the twins! I'm very lucky and happy to be flying the caravan but I'm ready to move on now.
Good luck!
Thread Starter
Feedback much appreciated!
Hi everyone,
Thanks so much to all of you who have taken the time to reply- it's much appreciated.
My overall attitude/ approach towards the next phase (first jobs) are:
- Despite my age, to remain teachable and humble enough to learn from any and all who can impart wisdom (whether the advice is from someone 20 years older or 20 years younger than me).
- Being older, to always make an effort to lead by example personally and professionally. This includes maintaining the same standards that got me through the CPL.
- When it comes to getting the first job: to focus on what else I can bring to an operator apart from a CPL and 300 hrs. In a market where everyone has the same qualification, I think getting a job will hinge on:
- The CP's first perceptions of me as a person and;
- What other skills I can bring to further their business.
In my working life to date, I've picked up lots of experience in Sales/ Customer Service/ Marketing/ Office Admin as well as Flight Operations/ Dispatch here in Australia and the UK. If I can get 5 minutes in front of a Chief Pilot and explain how I can employ that expertise in their operation, then I'm hoping that I would have a fairly compelling case as to why I should be given the job.
To reply/ comment to some of you individually:
slam click: I know the north west/ Kimberley plan sounds odd given the time of year, but there's a method to it. I'm on good terms with the owner of one of the largest GA operators in the north west (a few mates who work/ worked there have put some good words in for me) . Thanks to staff travel and blocks of days off from my current job, I'm heading up there soon for 4 days or so and apart from meeting the Owner/ CP, I'll spend a few days actually working there so that the operation can get to know me. Using this method, I'm hoping that I'll be that person who gets thought of when they next need to hire someone. I plan to use time off over the next few months to repeat the same process in other locations. This way I can actually get to show what I'm able to offer their business. Because at the end of the day, that's what I'm doing- helping someone to run their business.
TheExpatPilot: I've considered the Flight Instructor route, but have decided against it as it's not what I really want to do. As a bare CPL holder, I don't feel that I'd have anything of value to pass on. Plus the idea of living and working in the north west really excites me.
Goat Whisperer: That's what I was thinking...more than two decades in the industry should give me time to make it to a LCC Jet Captain or Senior FO. As you can probably tell, I have no problem with flexibility or willingness to relocate. Plus I'm lucky to have a Wife who's 110% behind what I'm doing.
SixDemonBag: The LH Seat of a high performance Turboprop sounds appealing- I could see myself being happy with that. Looking forwards, it comes down to what can offer the best overall combination of lifestyle and quality of life.
AU-501: You'd think that working in Flight Dispatch at a major Airline would allow for some great networking, but despite trying I've not found that to be the case. The Pilots that I get to interact with have generally long since GA so can't really help with networking. What I WILL be doing though is leaving my job on good terms, and maintaining contact with the CP/ Fleet Managers/ Pilot Recruitment Manager etc. for when I reach the Direct Entry minimums. I like your advice re: just enjoying things. In fact I've started taking lots of pictures/ vids of my flying and will continue to do so- it's all part of the journey.
OhForSure: Mate congratulations on your achievement! Conducting your CPL training around work and study is no mean feat, so well done.
D Check and Steve Zissou: Thanks for your suggestion re: the ANZ Regionals- it's not an approach that I'd considered. I'm going to look further into that.
Checkboard: Thanks for that run down of your experience. I get to interact with a lot of ex- Ansett people at work, and admire your persistence in rebuilding your career.
haughtney1: Copy everything you say. I'm under no illusions that I'm in for some hard work and have no issues with that. I've come to learn that you can't have too many contacts and networks.
I've got some more replies to acknowledge, but will do so tomorrow. In the meantime, it's back to CP calculations in Flight Planning. Urgh!
Cheers,
Gearup.
Thanks so much to all of you who have taken the time to reply- it's much appreciated.
My overall attitude/ approach towards the next phase (first jobs) are:
- Despite my age, to remain teachable and humble enough to learn from any and all who can impart wisdom (whether the advice is from someone 20 years older or 20 years younger than me).
- Being older, to always make an effort to lead by example personally and professionally. This includes maintaining the same standards that got me through the CPL.
- When it comes to getting the first job: to focus on what else I can bring to an operator apart from a CPL and 300 hrs. In a market where everyone has the same qualification, I think getting a job will hinge on:
- The CP's first perceptions of me as a person and;
- What other skills I can bring to further their business.
In my working life to date, I've picked up lots of experience in Sales/ Customer Service/ Marketing/ Office Admin as well as Flight Operations/ Dispatch here in Australia and the UK. If I can get 5 minutes in front of a Chief Pilot and explain how I can employ that expertise in their operation, then I'm hoping that I would have a fairly compelling case as to why I should be given the job.
To reply/ comment to some of you individually:
slam click: I know the north west/ Kimberley plan sounds odd given the time of year, but there's a method to it. I'm on good terms with the owner of one of the largest GA operators in the north west (a few mates who work/ worked there have put some good words in for me) . Thanks to staff travel and blocks of days off from my current job, I'm heading up there soon for 4 days or so and apart from meeting the Owner/ CP, I'll spend a few days actually working there so that the operation can get to know me. Using this method, I'm hoping that I'll be that person who gets thought of when they next need to hire someone. I plan to use time off over the next few months to repeat the same process in other locations. This way I can actually get to show what I'm able to offer their business. Because at the end of the day, that's what I'm doing- helping someone to run their business.
TheExpatPilot: I've considered the Flight Instructor route, but have decided against it as it's not what I really want to do. As a bare CPL holder, I don't feel that I'd have anything of value to pass on. Plus the idea of living and working in the north west really excites me.
Goat Whisperer: That's what I was thinking...more than two decades in the industry should give me time to make it to a LCC Jet Captain or Senior FO. As you can probably tell, I have no problem with flexibility or willingness to relocate. Plus I'm lucky to have a Wife who's 110% behind what I'm doing.
SixDemonBag: The LH Seat of a high performance Turboprop sounds appealing- I could see myself being happy with that. Looking forwards, it comes down to what can offer the best overall combination of lifestyle and quality of life.
AU-501: You'd think that working in Flight Dispatch at a major Airline would allow for some great networking, but despite trying I've not found that to be the case. The Pilots that I get to interact with have generally long since GA so can't really help with networking. What I WILL be doing though is leaving my job on good terms, and maintaining contact with the CP/ Fleet Managers/ Pilot Recruitment Manager etc. for when I reach the Direct Entry minimums. I like your advice re: just enjoying things. In fact I've started taking lots of pictures/ vids of my flying and will continue to do so- it's all part of the journey.
OhForSure: Mate congratulations on your achievement! Conducting your CPL training around work and study is no mean feat, so well done.
D Check and Steve Zissou: Thanks for your suggestion re: the ANZ Regionals- it's not an approach that I'd considered. I'm going to look further into that.
Checkboard: Thanks for that run down of your experience. I get to interact with a lot of ex- Ansett people at work, and admire your persistence in rebuilding your career.
haughtney1: Copy everything you say. I'm under no illusions that I'm in for some hard work and have no issues with that. I've come to learn that you can't have too many contacts and networks.
I've got some more replies to acknowledge, but will do so tomorrow. In the meantime, it's back to CP calculations in Flight Planning. Urgh!
Cheers,
Gearup.
Gearup, with that reply and attention to detail, my bet is you will make a good Chief Pilot some day.
Bollocks he is too old. Maybe for Qantas or Emirates, but as has been suggested elsewhere, he could still be in the game for 25 years. That's enough for a very good career in a smaller jet airline or a turboprop regional.
Also, if anyone shows management talent, it is not hard to bypass a lot of the seniority hurdles.
Also, if anyone shows management talent, it is not hard to bypass a lot of the seniority hurdles.
Remember there is a couple of operators around the place that have large range of aircraft types that would allow you to progress from RHS of a turboprop all the way to a jet captaincy. Like the old Skywest (which you can still join as VARA where who knows what opportunities will or won't be available), I am sure there are a few around.
